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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Firebird" data-source="post: 9798777" data-attributes="member: 7015803">There are a lot of good thoughts in this post. I am intrigued by the idea, if I may rephrase, that "RPGs cannot replicate experiences which are primarily about vertigo". (I like the term vertigo because it fits into Caillois' classification).That seems right to me. There are games that combine vertigo with other aspects, like competition or strategy. Baseball or football, for example. There are ways to make baseball games. They either focus on the chance/strategy aspect (Strat O Matic) or try to give you the feeling of vertigo via a video game or something. I suppose the video games are more popular for football and the strategy more for baseball.So, a successful game that models mountain climbing has to focus on the aspects other than vertigo...and there are not many. That argument seems right to me.But, a successful expedition game has more to go on. There is strategy (do I press on through the storm or take shelter?), there is chance (will I discover a large waterfall here?) there can be competition (will we reach the goal before our opponents?). I think you have to emphasize those rather than experience of being a climber.I both agree and disagree with this. I think you're right about hit points, that there are probably no fundamental improvements forthcoming there (that's what I meant earlier by saying dungeon crawling is 'solved'). But I think there is room for improvement elsewhere. The narrative movement in particular has made great advances with Apocalypse World and Blades in the Dark. (Most of what I've seen since seems to be iterations on those ideas--is that right or wrong?).Advantage/disadvantage is also pretty recent. Although maybe that is less of a fundamental shift.Hmm. I guess I think that there could be a solution to expedition play out there. But it will represent a more significant change to the mechanics than "this is an OSR game with procedures for hexcrawling and retainers".I would welcome disagreement. My thoughts are only half baked on these questions.</blockquote>

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