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Message: <blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 2092350" data-attributes="member: 5171">Pennywiz, the only time I hold my nose and pick stuff up with tongs is when I'm scooping dog poop.  If I'm doing that while dealing with your arguments, well... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />It certainly is that simple, provided that this is your definition of what it means to play a PC.  This is obviously your definition of what it means to play a PC.  It may not be everyone else's.  And by "may not", I mean "is not", since I for one have a different definition, and thus invalidate it being everyone else's definition.But please, continue to tell me I'm just kidding myself.  That level of argument is bound to convince me sooner or later.You know, I think my players thought the same thing, right up until the point where the DMPC paladin's suggestion turned out to backfire massively.  Man, I love playing Low-Intelligence characters.  After that, they interacted with her just like anyone else.  She had good suggestions involving evil outsiders and religious stuff, since she was a paladin, and otherwise, she was pretty much your basic Low-Int character.More seriously, are you trying to say that there is only one form of interaction in the game?  I'd suggest that there are at least two -- Plot-Based and Character-Based.  Or that, at the very least, this is a useful classification to make.NPCs tend to be better at plot-based information than PCs.  The players rarely look to other PCs for information about where the duke's men are hiding or whether there's been unusual goblin activity lately -- although the judicious use of knowledge checks allows a slightly clumsy version of this, with the DM rolling, telling a given player what his PC knows, and then having the PC pass that information on.  In a story hour, that would come across as the PC having plot-based interaction with another PC, but at the table, it's obvious that the DM is just feeding the PC the lines.  (Which is unfortunate, as it puts a crimp in the style of a knowledge-based character, particularly a bard who enjoys using Lore -- but that's another thread.)PCs tend to be better at character-based interaction, since they are a bit more free to banter and talk about their lives.  The DM rarely has the childhood memories of Bridge Guard Number Two plotted out, and really, the players don't care about Number Two's childhood memories unless it directly relates to the plot (hence, Plot-based interaction).  But two PCs can go back and forth without worry, since most of them have a decent background already, and are free to make up siblings or experiences on the spot without other worries.A DMPC may or may not be any good at plot-based interaction with PCs -- that depends on what the DM is willing to do.  Personally, I avoid it unless it's obvious that that's what the players want -- they want someone else to give them the information, rather than hunting it down from other folks in the town.  Most of the time, my players would rather actually find the information out from NPCs.  I don't want my players to abuse that, and my players have no interest in abusing it, any more than they'd be interested in using their money to hire mercenaries to go clear out the dungeon for them.A DMPC can be the equal of a PC in the character-based interaction, however.  That's the kind of interaction I enjoy when using a DMPC -- the interaction I don't get with the NPCs.  If you read some of the other posts here, you'll note that I said flat-out that a DMPC was a self-interest thing, rarely if ever a for-the-good-of-the-group thing.  As a DM in a group with nobody else who wants to play, the DMPC is my chance to get the relaxed back-and-forth dialogue around the campfire instead of just having NPC interactions involving the location of the monster, the weaknesses of the monster, and the treasure of the monster.If you read the other posts, you'll also note that the conversation has evolved a bit.  I don't believe anyone is saying that they actually want to run a PC while being the DM -- even the original poster, I believe, clarified his position.  Saying DMPC instead of just PC was specifically to differentiate between a real PC and the DMPC -- and after answering some clarification questions, it seems clear to me that a DMPC is just an NPC that lets you have talks around the campfire.  It can be played badly, of course, but so can any other NPC, from the "Blacksmith who is also a 20th level fighter and wears his Ring of Protection +5 and Bracers of Armor +10 while working, so you can't rob him" to "Serving girl who refuses to let the party into the lord's house without even allowing a Diplomacy or Bluff check, much less listening to our logical reasons for needing to get inside, because the DM has decided that the adventure module requires you to go clear the temple of Pelor before getting in to see the mayor, and heaven forbid we do the module out of order".Aside from the fact that we're not referring to PCs, but DMPCs, see earlier post in which I noted that my DMPC was designed to have a personality that made sure she wouldn't lead the party.And since when is "able to lead the party" a requirement for being a PC?  I'm interested in knowing how you go there.  Are NONE of your PCs dedicated followers?  You're assuming (incorrectly, in my case, at least) that the DM is attempting to play his DMPC in order to "win the game".  In fact, forget the DMPC.  If the DM is trying to "win the game" at all, he's kinda lost sight of what DMing is actually about.  The evil warlock is trying to win the game.  The ogre blackguard is trying to win the game.  The DM is trying to give his players an enjoyable evening.Keep going, Penny.  Just two or three more of those, and I'm gonna see the light.</blockquote>

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