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Playing non-healer clerics
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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8910715" data-attributes="member: 6877472"><p>Here's the thing though. The game currently can't handle good support.</p><p></p><p>The last time I played 3.5, I decided to make a total support Cleric. I used Divine Metamagic/Persist Spell, but only to cast buffs on my allies. I combed through the books, finding party buffs that I could legally use Persist Spell with, and kept a stack of note cards that I would hand out to my friends "hey, you get these benefits for the day".</p><p></p><p>At first, this was no big deal, a +1 here or there. And generally, having cast those buffs, all I really did for the rest of the session was heal or use my reserve feat, or maybe one of my cute little x/day magic items.</p><p></p><p>By level 9 though, the DM and I had this long talk. "I appreciate that you weren't trying to make some kind of Clericzilla and stealing the spotlight. You've been helping everyone else be stronger, and shoring up their weaknesses. But, well, last session you gave everyone something like +4 to attacks, saves, and AC, and another +2 to AC and saves, and a huge damage buff against large and larger enemies. And I can't keep up! The enemies you're supposed to be fighting for your level aren't built to handle these kinds of numbers! I tried using spellcasters of my own, but by the time I get the challenge back to where it should be, half the monsters are dead! And worse, you actually dispelled a major buff, and when I tried to have someone do the same to you, it failed because you actually invested in ways to prevent that.</p><p></p><p>I want to be clear on this- you did nothing wrong. You didn't cheat or use any option that you didn't clear with me first. But the game balance is totally busted and the only way I have to fix it is by being really unfair, with enemies specifically designed to counter you."</p><p></p><p>I came away from this with a realization.</p><p></p><p>The game has to be playable regardless of how you build and play your characters. No one wants to have an assigned role, that they have to fulfill. The game math has to work with a baseline.</p><p></p><p>Pathfinder 1e tried to "assume" certain buffs were up, but that ran into problems too; like, they assumed someone was always casting <em>haste</em>. But that isn't always the case, and you can't punish people for not playing optimally.</p><p></p><p>Buffs have to be mediocre, unfortunately, and support kind of has to as well, otherwise the whole premise of "play the character you want" falls apart.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 8910715, member: 6877472"] Here's the thing though. The game currently can't handle good support. The last time I played 3.5, I decided to make a total support Cleric. I used Divine Metamagic/Persist Spell, but only to cast buffs on my allies. I combed through the books, finding party buffs that I could legally use Persist Spell with, and kept a stack of note cards that I would hand out to my friends "hey, you get these benefits for the day". At first, this was no big deal, a +1 here or there. And generally, having cast those buffs, all I really did for the rest of the session was heal or use my reserve feat, or maybe one of my cute little x/day magic items. By level 9 though, the DM and I had this long talk. "I appreciate that you weren't trying to make some kind of Clericzilla and stealing the spotlight. You've been helping everyone else be stronger, and shoring up their weaknesses. But, well, last session you gave everyone something like +4 to attacks, saves, and AC, and another +2 to AC and saves, and a huge damage buff against large and larger enemies. And I can't keep up! The enemies you're supposed to be fighting for your level aren't built to handle these kinds of numbers! I tried using spellcasters of my own, but by the time I get the challenge back to where it should be, half the monsters are dead! And worse, you actually dispelled a major buff, and when I tried to have someone do the same to you, it failed because you actually invested in ways to prevent that. I want to be clear on this- you did nothing wrong. You didn't cheat or use any option that you didn't clear with me first. But the game balance is totally busted and the only way I have to fix it is by being really unfair, with enemies specifically designed to counter you." I came away from this with a realization. The game has to be playable regardless of how you build and play your characters. No one wants to have an assigned role, that they have to fulfill. The game math has to work with a baseline. Pathfinder 1e tried to "assume" certain buffs were up, but that ran into problems too; like, they assumed someone was always casting [I]haste[/I]. But that isn't always the case, and you can't punish people for not playing optimally. Buffs have to be mediocre, unfortunately, and support kind of has to as well, otherwise the whole premise of "play the character you want" falls apart. [/QUOTE]
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