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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8911989" data-attributes="member: 7030563">You can't keep up wuth a Cleric.First off you can't get the cantrips you would want through blessed Warrior (or through most cleric subclasses for that matter).The cantrips you want are booming blade, Green Flame Blade or shocking grasp, nothing in Blessed Warrior can give you this kick.  Yos start as a high Elf for the free cantrip or a V. Human  to take Magic initiate.  In either case though you are WAY behind a cleric built for this because you do not get Divine Strike/Blessed Strikes/Portent Spell Casting, you have fewer channel divinity options, your CD options do not augment this play style as well and your subclass abilities do not augment these cantrips like a Warrior Cleric does.  Additionally you have far fewer spell slots and you are going to have to use those for smites to come anywhere close to keeping up with a cleric.Build a Paladin that is going to use cantrips in melee (no attack actions) and the Cleric I build will destroy that Paladin 10 ways to Sunday.The classes I use ARE designed for this.  That is what you are not getting.The Swordmage as presented in previous editions is not designed to be a tank, does not make for a good tank and if it was uplifted to 5E in a similar fashion it would not suit my needs..  The Wizard in 5E IS designed to be a tank and makes one of the best tanks in the game!Sure you could design a Swordmage in 5E that does everything the Bladesinger does and then Swordmage would be designed to be a tank too, but that would be a departure from the stereotype of a Swordmage in the same fashion that the 5E Wizard is a departure from the stereotype of the Wizard.No it is not.  When you get to tier 2 you can be dominant to include out of bladesong.  You need to select spells specifically for this, but if you do you are very hard to hit, you have a ton of total hit points and you reduce the damage you take many of the times you take damage.Sure if you want to run around with Shadowblade, or cast spells like Fireball, Synaptic Static and Psychic Lance then you are not going to be dominant in melee.  If you don't waste slots on those things though you will.If you have a Bladesinger that only ever uses slots to cast the following spells:Shield, Absorb Elements, False Life, Protection from Evil and Good, Silvery Barbs, Catapult, Blur, Haste and Contingency.If you only ever use slots for those spells you will be a dominant tank from level 6 to level 15.  Not once or twice a day, but regularly.  I played a Bladesinger that did not get hit by an attack in combat AT ALL for several levels (5-9 I think) and she was in the thick of melee every single fight.  Not once or twice a day, but every single fight.The Swordmage from previous editions can not do that and was not designed to do that.A sword and board Eldritch Knight with Defense and Warcaster can make a really good tank but they will lose to a Bladesinger in that regard because they will run out of spell slots and don't have the higher-level slots.  In tier 2 they are going to be missing Blur and Haste and in Tier 3 they will be missing upcast False Life and Contingency.  This is despite having an "all-day" AC similar to a Bladesinger in Bladesong and a better AC out of Bladesong.It is trivial, but you are arguinmg they are not designed to do that, so I am pointing out that they areas a point of fact designed to do that.The Wizard gives you both of those things (and more as you pointed out).  I don't have to imagine the class - it is already right there on page 112 of the PHB.  It has been done already in 5E.No I have not seen that.  The Swordmage from previous editions is far worse IMO and the current design is pretty darn capable.Yes the class you choose (and put on top of your character sheet) actually brings certain specific mechanics to the game.Priest is not a class.  If you put that on the top of your sheet it is meaningless, although I will point out that if you want to call your character a "Priest of whatever" you should be able to do that and you should be able to do that regardless of what is under the class section.Ok.  Talk me through how to get Cleric mechanics on my Roll20 character if I put something other than Cleric in the spot on the sheet for "class".Yes they are.The Swordmage from previous editions was no where close to as effective as a Bladesinger is for what I want to do. You would have to change that substantially to make it as effective, and you could do that of course but it would not be the same Swordmage that it was in ptrevious editions just like Wizard is not the same as in previous editions.To turn this Cleric word argument around on you -  unlike Cleric the word "Swordmage" really has no mechanics associated with it in 5E, so why can't I just play a Wizard which has been designed from the ground up to do what I want to do and then write "Swordmage" on top of the sheet if that is what I want to call it?No it doesn't.  I play those classes all the time (well not Barbarians, but I don't play Druids or often play Bards either).  I play plenty of Fighters, Rogues and Rangers.  I play more Rogues than any other class and they are extremely fun.There is not a minimum intelligence for a Wizard and 20 is the maximum intelligence for every character.  Any Character class can be built with an Investigation as high as you can possibly make with a Wizard and you can build a Rogue, Ranger or Bard with a higher investigation than a Wizard can possibly get without feats.Just being a Wizard does not automatically make you good at investigation.  Sure you can take that as a skill and having a high intelligence works well with your other abilities, but that is hardly class-specific and you can't be truely great at it an on par with other classes without getting a Feat.Why does it matter how it could be designed.  It does what I want it to do the way it is designed so I am going to use it!It is the only sense that matters.  Either the mechanics support a certain style of play (Wizards in melee) or they don't (Sorcerers in melee).And you are completely wrong on design.  Protection from Evil and Good is DESIGNED to make the target harder to hit, Blur is DESIGNED to make the caster harder to hit.  Mage Armor is DESIGNED to make the caster harder to hit, Shield is DESIGNED to make the caster harder to hit, Silvery Barbs is DESIGNED to make an enemy reroll an attack, False Life is DESIGNED to give the target more hit points, Bladesong is DESIGNED to make the caster harder to hit, Extra Attack is Designed to let you attack more often in melee, Booming Blade, GFB and Shocking Grasp are DESIGNED to be used as a melee attack and Lightning Lure is DESIGNED to bring enemies into melee range.How can you look at those and come to the conclusion that a Wizard, a class intentionally given access to all of that, is not designed to be in melee?</blockquote>

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