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<blockquote data-quote="Olgar Shiverstone" data-source="post: 5990278" data-attributes="member: 5868">We don't have new monsters, so I'll ignore them for now as comparing to the original playtest monsters may not be right. [Edit: Now I see there is a Bestiary file in the .MACOSX folder, but I can't open it for some reason.]So let's compare them to the PCs.Searing Light -- 3d8 hit, half miss, as a first level spell, admittedly with an attack roll.&nbsp; That's almost instant death for a 1st level PC on a hit (Average 15 points on a hit ... with 14 con a Cleric has 10, a fighter 12).&nbsp; A miss could still be an instant kill with a high damage roll.&nbsp; Note that other 1st level spells like Inflict Light Wounds are also 3d8 based.Fireball &amp; lightning bolt at 5d6 and 6d6 respectively are probably OK for 3d level with the saves for half (17.5 and 21 average respectively on missed save against a the cleric above at 5th level with 38 hp and a 5th level fighter with 44 means 3 fireballs to wipe out the party) .&nbsp; But then compare them to Flaming Sphere, a 2d level spell doing 4d6 per creature (up to 4 assuming a grid) before save ... that hangs around for a full minute attacking creatures each round (14 hp average vs 3d level cleric with 24 and fighter with 28 -- death in two rounds).&nbsp; Flaming Sphere is almost strictly better than the 3d level spells.Magic missile I can get behind this time at one missile for 1d4+1.Are we tripling hit points at level 1 somewhere that I missed?&nbsp; Wizard characters will be lucky to survive one spell exchange; fighters get outclassed with their measly 1d8 (or maybe d10 plus d6, with an expertise die plus a skill bump) damage.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Olgar Shiverstone, post: 5990278, member: 5868"] We don't have new monsters, so I'll ignore them for now as comparing to the original playtest monsters may not be right. [Edit: Now I see there is a Bestiary file in the .MACOSX folder, but I can't open it for some reason.] So let's compare them to the PCs. Searing Light -- 3d8 hit, half miss, as a first level spell, admittedly with an attack roll. That's almost instant death for a 1st level PC on a hit (Average 15 points on a hit ... with 14 con a Cleric has 10, a fighter 12). A miss could still be an instant kill with a high damage roll. Note that other 1st level spells like Inflict Light Wounds are also 3d8 based. Fireball & lightning bolt at 5d6 and 6d6 respectively are probably OK for 3d level with the saves for half (17.5 and 21 average respectively on missed save against a the cleric above at 5th level with 38 hp and a 5th level fighter with 44 means 3 fireballs to wipe out the party) . But then compare them to Flaming Sphere, a 2d level spell doing 4d6 per creature (up to 4 assuming a grid) before save ... that hangs around for a full minute attacking creatures each round (14 hp average vs 3d level cleric with 24 and fighter with 28 -- death in two rounds). Flaming Sphere is almost strictly better than the 3d level spells. Magic missile I can get behind this time at one missile for 1d4+1. Are we tripling hit points at level 1 somewhere that I missed? Wizard characters will be lucky to survive one spell exchange; fighters get outclassed with their measly 1d8 (or maybe d10 plus d6, with an expertise die plus a skill bump) damage. [/QUOTE]

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