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Playtest 6: Spells
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9067862" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>So, nothing states it. You have just assumed it. That is poor practice, as logic does not always lead to truth. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They may be seperate planes of existence, but they LITERALLY state that once you leave the airless void around a planet, ie space, ie wildspace, you enter the astral sea. You cannot deny this, without rejecting the reality of the text. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, I seem to have read the text, and accepted what it described, instead of replacing it with my own view of the worlds of DnD. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If they are in Wildspace, they are not in the Astral Sea. Those are two different places.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A spelljammer cannot planeshift. It never becomes virtual. It cannot fly through a planet because both things are physical. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Except you are using it to conclude things which are false. The Astral Sea may be a realm of thought, but it is one you can physically fly a physical ship in and out of. You keep denying this, but it is a fact. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Exactly. In every single possible way, the ship is physical and physically moving. It dodges small debris automatically, it can be boarded, and it interacts with the atmosphere of the planet. It is not a virtual simulation of reality, it is reality. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It is not virtually identical, because you cannot interact with a planet on the material realm from the Astral Sea. You are slowing down and interacting with the planet PHYSICALLY. This is why the ship slows down. Because both things are physical. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, according to you, Astral Wildspace makes you a ghost that in every concievable way interacts as though they are materially present. My position? You are materially present. Your hypothesis about entering wildspace being a phase shift into a throughtform is wrong. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>False. If this were true, you could teleport from Toril to Oerth. You can't. The only way to go between them is via the Astral Sea or other portals. There are no galaxies far far away in physical space, you go to the edge of physical space, enter the astral plane, and then travel from there to other realms. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In the material plane, there aren't multiple star systems. You cannot see a star system far far away, you cannot travel towards it and never touch the Astral. Stop making things up. That isn't how DnD works. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are right, it can never do the impossible. Just like I can never leave North America and reach Australia without crossing an ocean. And I can't leave Earth and reach Neptune without crossing the void of space. There is no path from one DnD material plane to another without crossing the Astral Sea. Not that it is too far or too long such a path does not exist. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It does not travel magically. It is PROPELLED magically. Again, I listed every single capabitity of a spelljammer. None of them speak about shifting between planes. None of them create air pockets. None of them phase into virtual thoughtforms. None of the things you are claiming are real. All a spelljammer helm does is allow a ship to fly, through water, through air, and through the void of space. That's it. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And therefore by your definition a cart made of cinderblocks would have "planeshifting capabilities" making it a useless definition. </p><p></p><p>There is no portal unless you want to conceive of the borders between the atmosphere of the planet, the void of the wild space, and the silver mists of the Astral Sea as portals between dimensions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9067862, member: 6801228"] So, nothing states it. You have just assumed it. That is poor practice, as logic does not always lead to truth. They may be seperate planes of existence, but they LITERALLY state that once you leave the airless void around a planet, ie space, ie wildspace, you enter the astral sea. You cannot deny this, without rejecting the reality of the text. No, I seem to have read the text, and accepted what it described, instead of replacing it with my own view of the worlds of DnD. If they are in Wildspace, they are not in the Astral Sea. Those are two different places. A spelljammer cannot planeshift. It never becomes virtual. It cannot fly through a planet because both things are physical. Except you are using it to conclude things which are false. The Astral Sea may be a realm of thought, but it is one you can physically fly a physical ship in and out of. You keep denying this, but it is a fact. Exactly. In every single possible way, the ship is physical and physically moving. It dodges small debris automatically, it can be boarded, and it interacts with the atmosphere of the planet. It is not a virtual simulation of reality, it is reality. It is not virtually identical, because you cannot interact with a planet on the material realm from the Astral Sea. You are slowing down and interacting with the planet PHYSICALLY. This is why the ship slows down. Because both things are physical. So, according to you, Astral Wildspace makes you a ghost that in every concievable way interacts as though they are materially present. My position? You are materially present. Your hypothesis about entering wildspace being a phase shift into a throughtform is wrong. False. If this were true, you could teleport from Toril to Oerth. You can't. The only way to go between them is via the Astral Sea or other portals. There are no galaxies far far away in physical space, you go to the edge of physical space, enter the astral plane, and then travel from there to other realms. In the material plane, there aren't multiple star systems. You cannot see a star system far far away, you cannot travel towards it and never touch the Astral. Stop making things up. That isn't how DnD works. You are right, it can never do the impossible. Just like I can never leave North America and reach Australia without crossing an ocean. And I can't leave Earth and reach Neptune without crossing the void of space. There is no path from one DnD material plane to another without crossing the Astral Sea. Not that it is too far or too long such a path does not exist. It does not travel magically. It is PROPELLED magically. Again, I listed every single capabitity of a spelljammer. None of them speak about shifting between planes. None of them create air pockets. None of them phase into virtual thoughtforms. None of the things you are claiming are real. All a spelljammer helm does is allow a ship to fly, through water, through air, and through the void of space. That's it. And therefore by your definition a cart made of cinderblocks would have "planeshifting capabilities" making it a useless definition. There is no portal unless you want to conceive of the borders between the atmosphere of the planet, the void of the wild space, and the silver mists of the Astral Sea as portals between dimensions. [/QUOTE]
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