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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9171548" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Your interpretation here misses three things. 1) Spells do not require you to "gesticulate like a muppet" throwing your hands in every direction. You typed up the rules, but you seemed to miss something. "Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures" Firstly, gesticulation is not always wild. It is "A gesture, [especially a dramatic one],  used [instead of speaking] or to emphasize one's words" Or, cutting out the parts, a gesticulation can be a gesture used to emphasize words. But, you also miss the entire second part. Spellcasting gestures can also be an intricate set of gestures. And intricate is "complicated or detailed". It could be fair to say that crossing one's self is an intricate gesture. It requires touching your forehead with two fingers of your dominant hand, pulling the fingers down to the center of your chest, then moving to your left shoulder, reversing to your right shoulder, then clasping your hands together. That is intricate, and precise, and most Catholics who've done it for most of their lives can do it in less than two seconds. Or, how about a Japanese magical charm. You hold out your hand, write the symbol for "man" in your palm, and then swallow the man. Precise, intricate... and can be subtle. Sure, you'll notice it if someone is staring at you, but if you are in a crowded room, and you only see them out of the corner of your eye, you might just think they ate something from their hand, not that they did a small ritual. 2) Chanting does not have to be loud. I seriously don't understand (well, I have a theory, see pint #3) why people keep insisting on this. Chanting is rhythmic, musical, or repetitive, nothing about the definition says "loud". Sure, you CAN shout or be loud, but there is no requirement to do so. Chanting is most closely related to music, to singing, and there are sixty dozen videos and lessons out there on how to sing quietly, but with force and precision. This idea that verbal components means the person has to project to the back of the room instead of keeping to even a normal speaking tone is completely not supported. 3) This is really the biggest one, tying the other two together, but it is one I don't see people really thinking about. Spells are designed, in world, by people. By smart people. And they are designed with a purpose. Take this art. [ATTACH=full]314848[/ATTACH]The caster is what, 15 ft away from that guy? Less? In a crowded room with people listening intently. Do you think she could have cast her spell and no one notice, if, to cast the spell, she had to screamI AM NOW SUMMONING A GHOST HAND!!!No? Neither do I. So why would I think that is how the spell is designed? That would be... a poorly designed spell. And who would make and propagate a poorly designed spell? Not people who actually wanted to use that spell, and knew how to refine it. And think about the types of spells that always get brought up in these discussions. Enchantment spells. Spells meant and intended to affect someone without them knowing. Honestly, think about it. How effective of a spell is it if to cast Friends you had to grab the person, shake them, and scream in their face "I'M ENCHANTING SOMEONE'S MIND HERE!" The only times in fiction we see that for mental magic is on dominate spells, where the point is removing free-will. But a subtle influence spell is always... subtle. Because if it isn't subtle, it wouldn't work. And, I think that's the point hiding in the shadows for these discussions. The reason I think some people want to insist that all mental magic and debuff magic, and anything that might be useful in a social situation MUST be loud, obvious, and clearly identifiable to all... is because they want to make those spells unusable. What is the point of casting Friends on a criminal in a bar if by doing so everyone within 20 ft is screaming and pointing that you just used magic and you clearly used magic and therefore you need to be stopped because you used magic! There is no point. It renders the spell completely useless, same with Charm Person, and Suggestion, and a dozen other spells whose use cases are clearly meant for the target being unaware of magic being cast on them. Do they still need to chant and gesture? Sure, but it can be a quite, lyrical chant and a set of small, intricate gestures and that's still following the rules of the game. It doesn't have to be LOOK AT ME AND MY OBVIOUS MAGIC THAT IS OBVIOUS SO YOU KNOW TO NOT TRUST ANYTHING BECAUSE OBVIOUS MAGIC IS HAPPENING!!</blockquote>

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