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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9174103" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Yes this is true of every single piece of fantasy literature/media including the DnD novels. I was just bringing up a cultural touchstone for the idea of a conniving caster who enchants a ruler. A thing that happens quite a bit in fantasy literature/mediaIt can be. Can you name any? Is there any enchantment spell in 5e that states it is more subtle than any other?Here's the problem. Sorcerers don't make spells. So, yes, Sorcerer Subtle spell is nice and all, but the spell could not have been designed with it in mind, because Sorcerer's don't design spells. So it was a wizard who made this spell, and they didn't have Subtle Spell as an option. And, again, we have to address "what was this spell designed to do?"How is "requires a save" unstoppable? And all the spell does is give you advantage on a skill check, which still is only called on by the DM. How does that not require intelligence and Charisma? But, also this, what are the proper targets? Someone who is asleep?! Seriously, it lasts a minute and only gives advantage on charisma saves. Breaking and entering, sneaking into someone's home, and all this to use a cantrip? Come on. Again, think about the in-universe designer of the spell. They didn't make it with the requirement of breaking and entering.You mean like the leader of the nation having a decent Wisdom save? Maybe an item which prevents them from being charmed? Here's my issue. With the idea that a caster must LOUDLY DECLARE MAGIC IS HAPPENING is that you can't use this cantrip against people in the pub, or a merchant in the bazaar, or any other situation that a 1st level bard might encounter. Cause, you know, Cantrips aren't meant for high level players who can take over nations or can casually murder guards after using them to infiltrate a castle. It is meant for 1st level characters, who are just in public.</blockquote>

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