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*Dungeons & Dragons
Playtest 8: Cantrips
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9175100" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Which is a completely legitimate way to feel, the world sucks and there are many ways that it has been turned against us. And I am inclined to agree that, of all schools of magic, Enchantment has one of the highest tendencies to be used in ways I find personally repulsive in all circumstances. </p><p></p><p>However, I disagree with you on taking this view of all persuasion attempts. I have tried to persuade people that the world does have things worth hoping for, or that the terrible they have suffered does not mean that their entire life is worthless or over. These are equally as manipulative, because they use many of the same tactics. The end goal is different though. If you have manipulated someone purely for their own benefit, that is vastly different than manipulating them for your own benefit. </p><p></p><p>And while the ideal of "just never manipulate anyone!" sounds good, the only actual way to do that is to never interact with another human being, because everything we do in a human interaction is to manipulate the other person to seeing our point of view. </p><p></p><p>Which, tying back to the cantrip, I see this view of yours as tied almost directly into how you desire this cantrip to be blatantly obvious to everyone. You want "manipulation" to be unquestioning and obvious to everyone, so that everyone can turn on the person who does it, but that goes against the in-world logic of why someone would develop a spell that makes people more likely to listen to them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9175100, member: 6801228"] Which is a completely legitimate way to feel, the world sucks and there are many ways that it has been turned against us. And I am inclined to agree that, of all schools of magic, Enchantment has one of the highest tendencies to be used in ways I find personally repulsive in all circumstances. However, I disagree with you on taking this view of all persuasion attempts. I have tried to persuade people that the world does have things worth hoping for, or that the terrible they have suffered does not mean that their entire life is worthless or over. These are equally as manipulative, because they use many of the same tactics. The end goal is different though. If you have manipulated someone purely for their own benefit, that is vastly different than manipulating them for your own benefit. And while the ideal of "just never manipulate anyone!" sounds good, the only actual way to do that is to never interact with another human being, because everything we do in a human interaction is to manipulate the other person to seeing our point of view. Which, tying back to the cantrip, I see this view of yours as tied almost directly into how you desire this cantrip to be blatantly obvious to everyone. You want "manipulation" to be unquestioning and obvious to everyone, so that everyone can turn on the person who does it, but that goes against the in-world logic of why someone would develop a spell that makes people more likely to listen to them. [/QUOTE]
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Playtest 8: Cantrips
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