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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 9212867" data-attributes="member: 23751">While talking or not talking is binary, you are engaging in a False Dichotomy there by trying to limit it to those two.  In the true range we have shouting, talking loudly, talking, talking quietly, whispering and not talking.  There are probably some others in there as well. I'm not sure how many distinct sound levels of talking there are.When I pointed out that whispering and not talking, you know, the subject of this discussion, were both designed to avoid detection of spellcasting, you didn't care what the point was.  Probably because it destroys your position.You the engaged in grossly(I mean it wasn't even your typical very clear perversion) perverting what I said so I called you out on it.There's no ad hominem in calling you out on your Strawmen. Sorry bud.The general loud enough to be heard verbals, yes.You are aware that when bards sing spells are not just singing Pearl Jam, right.  They sing the literal mystical words of creation mixed in with Pearl Jam. Others can hear those mystical words of creation."Bards say that the multiverse was spoken into existence, that the words of the gods gave it shape, and that echoes of these primordial Words of Creation still resound throughout the cosmos. The music of bards is an attempt to snatch and harness those echoes, subtly woven into their spells and powers."The game is designed around verbals being heard over the din of combat.Is it? Show me where it explicitly says anywhere in any book that deaf wizards can counterspell a verbal only spell from someone 60 feet behind them that they don't see because they didn't hear that caster.  Counterspell gives no magical knowledge of spells being cast.  You have to know that the person you are seeing is casting a spell, which short of a feat is impossible if you can't hear the verbal only spell being cast.  Otherwise you aren't seeing someone cast a spell. You are only seeing someone whisper something.You haven't shown the explicit language in Counterspell that gives universally perfect knowledge of everyone within 60 feet who is casting a spell.  You can't infer anything and have it be RAW.  You have to have explicitly written language for it to be RAW.The magical echo of the words of creation that deal psychic damage yes. That echo is woven into the insult.  The insult does no damage. The echo does the damage. Perhaps read bards so you know how their magic works.This is just plain false.  I don't have to know how motorcycles work in order to know that one can't fly.I counted.  After 10 pages it goes into the guidelines on creating monsters, classes, etc.  Those are not optional rules.With no core rules, yes.  The DMG has a few pages of optional rules in it and the MM has no rules in it.Show me one real rule.  Not something that interacts with real rules from the PHB, but a real rule.You're not arguing anything based on any rule at the moment.  You are as you admit above, just making assumptions about magic that don't hold up.</blockquote>

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