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Playtest 8 Spell Discussion
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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 9213587" data-attributes="member: 23751"><p>There are no grievances. I'm doing it to teach you since you haven't seemed to get it any other way. You don't get to twist my words and invent stuff for me. That applies to this as well. You don't get to invent grievances. <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🤷♂️" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /></p><p></p><p>Exactly. Mystical(magical) words. They exist in verbal wizard spells. They exist in verbal clerical spells. And they exist in the verbal singing of bards. Easy to recognize for those who are trained.</p><p></p><p>And no, you cannot ask for granny using the magical words of creation. Those trigger power and would be spellcasting. They are not a language to be spoken. Athrrak(as a made up example) is a magical word used in the sleep spell. It does not have a meaning like granny.</p><p></p><p>You can't get to 1 without feeblemind or some other DM inflicted status. If a DM brings the wizard to 1, then he will probably apply all the same problems. You're still comparing apples and oranges.</p><p></p><p>One of the worst things about 5e is removing minimum stat requirements for spellcasting. It's not just lame, it's stupid for a wizard to be running around casting spells with a 3 int(or any intelligence penalty really).</p><p></p><p>While I would rule a 3 intelligence as being too stupid to recognize spellcasting, there is no actual rule that says so.</p><p></p><p>You can ignore the bolded all you like, but continuing to ignore it doesn't change the requirement. You have to KNOW it's casting a spell, which counterspell doesn't provide you one iota of knowledge about.</p><p></p><p>True is not false. It doesn't need to be in the PHB outside of general movement, because unlike swimming, climbing and crawling, it has no movement penalties. Further, you are ignoring the MM itself to argue this wrong position.</p><p></p><p>"SPEED</p><p>A monster's speed tells you how far i t can move on its turn. <strong>For more information on speed, see the Player's Handbook</strong>.</p><p></p><p>All creatures have a walking speed, simply called the monster's speed. Creatures that have no form of groundbased locomotion have a walking speed of 0 feet.</p><p></p><p>Some creatures have one or more of the following additional movement modes."</p><p></p><p>Burrowing uses the PHB speed rules along with the MM guidelines.</p><p></p><p>Yes. The guidelines there suggest how it works.</p><p></p><p>Doesn't matter which came first. The chicken and egg are both guidelines. <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🤷♂️" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /></p><p></p><p>Suggestion on how it recharges. The MM is, by RAW(if you're counting the MM and DMG as rules instead of what the game says), guidelines.</p><p></p><p>You still haven't solved that dilemma by the way. If the MM and DMG are RAW, then RAW says that both are guidelines and only the PHB has the rules needed to play the game. If they are not RAW, then they are guidelines and only the PHB has the rules needed to play the game. You're in a catch 22.</p><p></p><p>Per the DMG the rules needed to play the game are there. None of the optional rules in the DMG or splatbooks are needed to run the game. Not one.</p><p></p><p>Take your own advice and stop trying to recategorize the guidelines in the DMG and MM as rules.</p><p></p><p>Yes there is. You have to see someone casting a spell. Unless you know it's a spell, you aren't seeing someone cast a spell. You are only seeing someone say something.</p><p></p><p>Provide me where it says that counterspell provides perfect knowledge of all spellcasting within 60 feet. Show me the text and I will admit that that text is a rule. If you can't show it, it doesn't exist and is not a rule.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 9213587, member: 23751"] There are no grievances. I'm doing it to teach you since you haven't seemed to get it any other way. You don't get to twist my words and invent stuff for me. That applies to this as well. You don't get to invent grievances. 🤷♂️ Exactly. Mystical(magical) words. They exist in verbal wizard spells. They exist in verbal clerical spells. And they exist in the verbal singing of bards. Easy to recognize for those who are trained. And no, you cannot ask for granny using the magical words of creation. Those trigger power and would be spellcasting. They are not a language to be spoken. Athrrak(as a made up example) is a magical word used in the sleep spell. It does not have a meaning like granny. You can't get to 1 without feeblemind or some other DM inflicted status. If a DM brings the wizard to 1, then he will probably apply all the same problems. You're still comparing apples and oranges. One of the worst things about 5e is removing minimum stat requirements for spellcasting. It's not just lame, it's stupid for a wizard to be running around casting spells with a 3 int(or any intelligence penalty really). While I would rule a 3 intelligence as being too stupid to recognize spellcasting, there is no actual rule that says so. You can ignore the bolded all you like, but continuing to ignore it doesn't change the requirement. You have to KNOW it's casting a spell, which counterspell doesn't provide you one iota of knowledge about. True is not false. It doesn't need to be in the PHB outside of general movement, because unlike swimming, climbing and crawling, it has no movement penalties. Further, you are ignoring the MM itself to argue this wrong position. "SPEED A monster's speed tells you how far i t can move on its turn. [B]For more information on speed, see the Player's Handbook[/B]. All creatures have a walking speed, simply called the monster's speed. Creatures that have no form of groundbased locomotion have a walking speed of 0 feet. Some creatures have one or more of the following additional movement modes." Burrowing uses the PHB speed rules along with the MM guidelines. Yes. The guidelines there suggest how it works. Doesn't matter which came first. The chicken and egg are both guidelines. 🤷♂️ Suggestion on how it recharges. The MM is, by RAW(if you're counting the MM and DMG as rules instead of what the game says), guidelines. You still haven't solved that dilemma by the way. If the MM and DMG are RAW, then RAW says that both are guidelines and only the PHB has the rules needed to play the game. If they are not RAW, then they are guidelines and only the PHB has the rules needed to play the game. You're in a catch 22. Per the DMG the rules needed to play the game are there. None of the optional rules in the DMG or splatbooks are needed to run the game. Not one. Take your own advice and stop trying to recategorize the guidelines in the DMG and MM as rules. Yes there is. You have to see someone casting a spell. Unless you know it's a spell, you aren't seeing someone cast a spell. You are only seeing someone say something. Provide me where it says that counterspell provides perfect knowledge of all spellcasting within 60 feet. Show me the text and I will admit that that text is a rule. If you can't show it, it doesn't exist and is not a rule. [/QUOTE]
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