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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9060701" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Then redefine the monk as a zen archer and be done with having any fantasy for unarmed martial artists.But this discussion isn't about "once in a while". That's what you keep missing. Sure, if the monk occassionally takes a potshot at someone it isn't like the PHB bursts into flames. But when asked "what do you do if there are no soft ranged attackers for the monk to flank and gank" Mellored and others answer was "then you get out your bow and kite the melee enemies" Their PLAN consistently, is to be in melee with enemies that can't fight in melee. And then never be in melee against foes who can fight in melee. This is a strategy predicated on the monk being a terrible melee class. And, as an unarmed martial artist fantasy, that would be a failure of class design.Their damage is high right now from levels 1 to 4, but it falls off pretty quick. And you are shifting the goal. Now it isn't being able to chase down and dismantle the enemy, now it is being able to move between enemies you can kill in a single blow. A single blow from a monk is 6.5 damage. That isn't even enough to kill a goblin. And at these levels, two attacks to finish the goblin using a bonus action is the same as one attack to finish the goblin without using a bonus action. And, again, sure, the monk is capable of taking down mulitple smaller enemies.... Do you think the fighter or Ranger with a longbow isn't? Do you think the Berserker Barbarian with a greataxe and javelin isn't? Other classes can go hunting the small fry too, they can use ranged attacks too, and they do it about as well or better than the monk. A sharpshooter fighter with a longbow can snipe two enemies 1,200 ft apart since they have a 600 ft attack radius. No monk is matching that. And, in addition to that... none of those classes is encouraged to avoid melee at all costs. Even the Rogue is more capable of standing in melee with a single big bruiser than the monk is.</blockquote>

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