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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9061087" data-attributes="member: 6801228">If you have designed a wizard class that, as a class, says &quot;I am better off using my crossbow than using a cantrip&quot; then you have not designed a good wizard class that is supposed to be using cantrips. Again, I keep repeating it, this isn't &quot;no monk should ever touch a crossbow!&quot; this is a response to &quot;the monk's best way to fight a melee opponent is to never engage in melee&quot;. The Monk is a class designed to punch people in the face, they are a melee class. And we keep getting told that they should avoid melee fights at all cost. That is a red flag.IF your fantasy is &quot;the monk is a designated archer class&quot; then I have bad news for you. A monk should be able to engage in melee and not feel like that was a mistake. Sometimes at level 3 they have options, sometimes they don't. This conversation has ranged levels and abilities constantly. And yes, the elemental monk's reach is very cool. But there is a looming problem. The elemental monk uses that ability at the start of the fight, then they flurry.... and now they have a single point of ki left until they can get a short rest. So, are they going to be able to continue in engaging with melee? Or are they going to need to abandon their fists and rely on their bow? And if it is the second... why do we have a class built to utilize their fists who consistently abandons use of their fists? Isn't that a problem!?Other classes don't have to do the same single repetitive task either. But they are best at what they are designed to do. And it seems monks are not best in engaging in melee with their fists. Oh, sure, they do more damage with unarmed strikes (unless you have the unarmed fighting style) than other classes but they are so unreliable in melee that even the suggestion that that is what they should be doing seems to be melting down the thread. Instead, they seem to be the best at being archers. which is not what the fantasy of the Monk IS</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9061087, member: 6801228"] If you have designed a wizard class that, as a class, says "I am better off using my crossbow than using a cantrip" then you have not designed a good wizard class that is supposed to be using cantrips. [B][I][U]Again[/U][/I][/B], I keep repeating it, this isn't "no monk should ever touch a crossbow!" this is a response to "the monk's best way to fight a melee opponent is to never engage in melee". The Monk is a class designed to punch people in the face, they are a melee class. And we keep getting told that they should avoid melee fights at all cost. That is a red flag. IF your fantasy is "the monk is a designated archer class" then I have bad news for you. A monk should be able to engage in melee and not feel like that was a mistake. Sometimes at level 3 they have options, sometimes they don't. This conversation has ranged levels and abilities constantly. And yes, the elemental monk's reach is very cool. But there is a looming problem. The elemental monk uses that ability at the start of the fight, then they flurry.... and now they have a single point of ki left until they can get a short rest. So, are they going to be able to continue in engaging with melee? Or are they going to need to abandon their fists and rely on their bow? And if it is the second... why do we have a class built to utilize their fists who consistently abandons use of their fists? Isn't that a problem!? Other classes don't have to do the same single repetitive task either. But they are best at what they are designed to do. And it seems monks are not best in engaging in melee with their fists. Oh, sure, they do more damage with unarmed strikes (unless you have the unarmed fighting style) than other classes but they are so unreliable in melee that even the suggestion that that is what they should be doing seems to be melting down the thread. Instead, they seem to be the best at being archers. which is not what the fantasy of the Monk IS [/QUOTE]

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