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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9069718" data-attributes="member: 6801228">We have to make sure we compare like to like however. Unless the simple weapons get a major overhaul, we know what masteries are on the table. And all of them have a stronger weapon available that does the same thing, but are usable by martials. Now, sure, Rogues being able to drop a d6 for prone is comparable... but what about dropping a d6 for persistent disadvantage on enemy attacks? Sap is disadvantage on a single attack, so those two abilities aren't really that close. And, we cannot forget, even with sacrificing the dice, the Rogue does more damage than the monk by higher levels. The only ability that would cause a rogue to deal LESS damage than a monk is Knockout. Which is a very powerful ability as is. Pretty much anything else they use gives them an effect AND more damage than the monk.They aren't going to kill the monk class. Worst case scenario they decide to change nothing and leave us with the 2014 Monk. So, if that is what you are worried about, it isn't going to happen. As for &quot;knee-jerk&quot; fixes... my man, people have been iterating on some of these monk fixes for YEARS. These aren't knee-jerk &quot;we've never considered the monk design before&quot; reactions. Many of us have spent a long time hoping that this monk would be an improvement over the original version... and it isn't. By basically all metrics they nerfed the class as a whole.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9069718, member: 6801228"] We have to make sure we compare like to like however. Unless the simple weapons get a major overhaul, we know what masteries are on the table. And all of them have a stronger weapon available that does the same thing, but are usable by martials. Now, sure, Rogues being able to drop a d6 for prone is comparable... but what about dropping a d6 for persistent disadvantage on enemy attacks? Sap is disadvantage on a single attack, so those two abilities aren't really that close. And, we cannot forget, even with sacrificing the dice, the Rogue does more damage than the monk by higher levels. The only ability that would cause a rogue to deal LESS damage than a monk is Knockout. Which is a very powerful ability as is. Pretty much anything else they use gives them an effect AND more damage than the monk. They aren't going to kill the monk class. Worst case scenario they decide to change nothing and leave us with the 2014 Monk. So, if that is what you are worried about, it isn't going to happen. As for "knee-jerk" fixes... my man, people have been iterating on some of these monk fixes for YEARS. These aren't knee-jerk "we've never considered the monk design before" reactions. Many of us have spent a long time hoping that this monk would be an improvement over the original version... and it isn't. By basically all metrics they nerfed the class as a whole. [/QUOTE]

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