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Please correct my understanding of a feudal army
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<blockquote data-quote="SiderisAnon" data-source="post: 3551573" data-attributes="member: 44949"><p>Remember that when determining how much military someone can provide, the real question is how much can their land support?</p><p></p><p>A feudal manor could be described as enough land to support a knight, his armor, his weaponry, and his horse. The knight probably came with a servant or three to take care of him and his horse, depending on how well off his land was.</p><p></p><p>A second-tier feudal lord would have several parcels of land that he doled out to his men so they could support themselves as knights. Effectively, if Lord Rathbone was required to show up with himself and five other knights, there was a decent chance that the five other men were serving in exchange for land he granted them. </p><p></p><p>In older feudal times, men served for a fixed amount of time. So, there were cases of a group of knights going back to run their lands after their three months of service owed that year, even if the war wasn't over. According to history books I've read, most lords did not actually want to go off to war regularly because it meant they couldn't be looking after their holdings. (I've seen exceptions noted as well. Sometimes, spoils can be profitable too, and there are causes that are supported.)</p><p></p><p>The time limit is part of why as more money was used in the economy, they slowly shifted from a model of paying taxes in goods from the manor and service to the lord to a model of paying taxes and service in cold, hard cash. The upper tier lord could then hire an actual army and know they were going to stay in the field (as long as he could pay and feed them).</p><p></p><p></p><p>If you are still in an older feudal economy where service is provided instead of coin, there is one thing off in your example. You have Baron Boris and other higher tier lords call up their forces and then double them from their "own" men. However, Baron Boris is more likely to get his knights and such from land he doled out to people, not from a personal "staff" of knights that are around the house. Only the most wealthy of lords could keep "house knights", which is what non-landed knights were called in ... Britian I believe it was.</p><p></p><p>Of course, D&D really messes with this economic model. If the Baron doesn't have troops at his easy beck and call, even on a small manor, the adventurers tend to get uppity. Remember that as long as it doesn't hurt your head and your players don't mind, the lords can have whatever troops you want.</p><p></p><p></p><p>For the foot troops, they were often levied from the general population, as another poster mentioned. From what I've seen in the histories I've read, it was not uncommon for them to have little more than padded armor, a knife, and some kind of pole arm. Their training was minimal. They really weren't much more than fodder on the field, but you had to have them because the other guy did and because it's hard to hold a field and maintain positions when all you've got is 12 guys in heavy armor.</p><p></p><p></p><p>While most lords could not marshal large bodies of troops, there were armies in the feudal days that mustered a thousand or more soldiers. There were some significantly larger than that, but that's generally only if the whole country is going to war.</p><p></p><p>Remember that one of the limits of army size is that you have to be able to feed them. Another part of that is that if you pull all your able bodied men into the army, who is going to run the farms?</p><p></p><p></p><p>The wars between Britain and the mainland of Europe, as well as wars throughout Europe, are some very interesting reads if you get the right books. There are also numerous historical resources on the web. In fact, a Google search for "feudal army" turned up several helpful documents in the first page.</p><p></p><p>Just remember that the "feudal" period covers quite a bit of history and a number of countries; sources can give contradictory information because they are talking about different time periods and different regions</p><p></p><p>And when it's all said and done, it's about having fun. If the research isn't fun for you, go with what makes sense in your head and that the players can accept.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SiderisAnon, post: 3551573, member: 44949"] Remember that when determining how much military someone can provide, the real question is how much can their land support? A feudal manor could be described as enough land to support a knight, his armor, his weaponry, and his horse. The knight probably came with a servant or three to take care of him and his horse, depending on how well off his land was. A second-tier feudal lord would have several parcels of land that he doled out to his men so they could support themselves as knights. Effectively, if Lord Rathbone was required to show up with himself and five other knights, there was a decent chance that the five other men were serving in exchange for land he granted them. In older feudal times, men served for a fixed amount of time. So, there were cases of a group of knights going back to run their lands after their three months of service owed that year, even if the war wasn't over. According to history books I've read, most lords did not actually want to go off to war regularly because it meant they couldn't be looking after their holdings. (I've seen exceptions noted as well. Sometimes, spoils can be profitable too, and there are causes that are supported.) The time limit is part of why as more money was used in the economy, they slowly shifted from a model of paying taxes in goods from the manor and service to the lord to a model of paying taxes and service in cold, hard cash. The upper tier lord could then hire an actual army and know they were going to stay in the field (as long as he could pay and feed them). If you are still in an older feudal economy where service is provided instead of coin, there is one thing off in your example. You have Baron Boris and other higher tier lords call up their forces and then double them from their "own" men. However, Baron Boris is more likely to get his knights and such from land he doled out to people, not from a personal "staff" of knights that are around the house. Only the most wealthy of lords could keep "house knights", which is what non-landed knights were called in ... Britian I believe it was. Of course, D&D really messes with this economic model. If the Baron doesn't have troops at his easy beck and call, even on a small manor, the adventurers tend to get uppity. Remember that as long as it doesn't hurt your head and your players don't mind, the lords can have whatever troops you want. For the foot troops, they were often levied from the general population, as another poster mentioned. From what I've seen in the histories I've read, it was not uncommon for them to have little more than padded armor, a knife, and some kind of pole arm. Their training was minimal. They really weren't much more than fodder on the field, but you had to have them because the other guy did and because it's hard to hold a field and maintain positions when all you've got is 12 guys in heavy armor. While most lords could not marshal large bodies of troops, there were armies in the feudal days that mustered a thousand or more soldiers. There were some significantly larger than that, but that's generally only if the whole country is going to war. Remember that one of the limits of army size is that you have to be able to feed them. Another part of that is that if you pull all your able bodied men into the army, who is going to run the farms? The wars between Britain and the mainland of Europe, as well as wars throughout Europe, are some very interesting reads if you get the right books. There are also numerous historical resources on the web. In fact, a Google search for "feudal army" turned up several helpful documents in the first page. Just remember that the "feudal" period covers quite a bit of history and a number of countries; sources can give contradictory information because they are talking about different time periods and different regions And when it's all said and done, it's about having fun. If the research isn't fun for you, go with what makes sense in your head and that the players can accept. [/QUOTE]
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