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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8786929" data-attributes="member: 87792">I should say "I don't like the design" when I don't like the design. I should say it is bad design when it is bad design. The two are different.I don't like the design of the ranger that turns them into a hedge wizard rather than a ranger. It is not inherently bad design because it does its job.It is bad design to make a supposed powerful class feature into something that merely adds a spell of a level that someone could already cast onto that character's spell list and gives them a ribbon ability of an effect. It is also bad design to not check the power level of the spell you add and find that it's utterly pathetic of a spell of that level.  It's a bottom tier spell that is trying to compete with spell slots with e.g. Revivify, Nondetection, Elemental Weapon, and Conjure Animals.I have pointed out that if you literally doubled the damage of Conjure Barrage then because of its other restrictions it still would struggle to be a match for Fireball. Which the wizard got when they were literally half the level that the Ranger is when they get this pile of junk. And because Int is the primary stat for most wizards and Wis is a secondary stat for rangers it's likely Fireball would be harder to save against back then than conjure barrage is now.I say it is a downgrade because it factually is. The numbers actually exist and are a part of the design we have been presented.And as I have pointed out the use case for the class ability both comes at a far higher cost than Volley and is far far more specific and good in fewer situations than Volley despite having a much higher cost; one of the key factors of Conjure Barrage is that it attacks everyone, friend or foe and another is the fixed range and shape. (And almost any non-artificial situation Conjure Barrage is good in so is Volley).Also you claim you dislike Volley because, and I quote, "I do dislike it, because it does not play well with extra attack and especially the level 3 ability "horde breaker"."Guess what? Conjure Barrage also does not play well with extra attack. Or for that matter Horde Breaker or even the now mandatory Hunter's Prey. Or for that matter Hunter's Mark. Or your fighting style. Or for that matter your magic bow. Or for that matter your primary stat.   If this is your reason for disliking Horde Breaker then on every single count you criticise Volley Conjure Barrage is worse.And for the record Horde Breaker and Volley work just fine together; because volley is an attack it triggers horde breaker. If there are two enemies next to each other then if you are using Extra Attack then you can get two attacks against one of them and your Horde Breaker extra attack against the other. If you are using Volley against two enemies next to each other then you get one arrow aimed at each of them and then an extra attack against one of them from Horde Breaker - the situation is literally identical in that it's two arrows against one and one against the other with the only difference being the order you fire them in. Which means that if there's a third foe within about fifteen feet of either of them then the attack against this third target is literally free. So I disagree with your assertion that Hordebreaker and Volley don't play well together when any time you could trigger Hordebreaker with a Volley then Volley will be at least as good as extra attack and frequently strictly better.What volley admittedly does not play well with is Crossbow Expert and using a rapid firing hand crossbow, preferably with the Sharpshooter power attack. If that's your line fine - although I think this should never have been the thing it was.Now it's possible to argue that Conjure Barrage is better than Whirlwind Attack because (a) it gives you a ranged AoE option and (b) doesn't require you to dive into the middle of a mass of enemies while being a member of a class with very limited defensive tech and (c) doesn't conflict in the same way with two weapon fighting. But that's because Volley is just a mediocre ability while whirlwind attack is genuinely bad and even manages to cover a smaller area than Volley.And when your opinion needs to start by pretending that we should ignore the math, and when you have obvious and blatant double standards (such as criticising Volley for not playing well with Extra Attack while not caring that Conjure Barrage works in exactly the same way with Extra Attack while not playing well with other class features) and ignore things like one having a cost and the other not. You're entitled to your opinion - and I'm entitled to check and then outline what your opinion is based on</blockquote>

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