Please help me understand +1LA races

[Rel]

After a rather unfortunate TPK last night, my players launched into the creation of a new batch of PC's. I decided that we would make characters at the same level as the party that was just killed (4th) and we're even going to be able to pick up the same general plotline as before. I had previously established in this campaign that I would be happy to allow some of the humanoids in the Monster Manual as PC races since these were fairly common in the setting (Eberron set in Sharn though now headed to Xen'Drik).

I have never used PC races with a level adjustment and I'm having a devil of a time trying to wrap my old brain around the idea. Quite frankly some of the race/LA combos set off my Broken-Shafted Detector (tm) pretty hard. Let me tell you what I think that two different LA characters would look like and you tell me where I'm wrong:

Hobgoblin Fighter 3 (effective level 4th)

+2 Dex, +2 Con
Spd 30'
Darkvision 60'
+4 Racial Bonus on Move Silently
Hit Dice: Max for 1st level of fighter +2d10 (plus Con bonus)
BAB: +3
Feats: 1 for 1st Level, 1 for 3rd Level and Fighter Bonus Feats for levels 1&2 (4 total Feats)
Base Saves: Fort...+3, Ref...+1, Will...+1
Skill Points: Normal for 3rd level Fighter (6x[2+Int Bonus])


Contrast that with...

Bugbear Fighter 3 (effective level 4th)

+4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha
Spd 30'
Darkvision 60'
+4 Racial Bonus on Move Silently
+3 Natural Armor Bonus
Hit Dice: Max for 1st level of fighter +2d10 (plus Con bonus), plus 3d8 Humanoid dice
BAB: +5
Feats: 1 for 1st Level, 1 for 3rd Level and Fighter Bonus Feats for levels 1&2 AND 2 extra feats for the Humanoid levels (6 total Feats)
Base Saves: Fort...+4, Ref...+4, Will...+2
Skill Points: Normal for 3rd level Fighter (6x[2+Int Bonus]) PLUS (6x[2+Int Bonus]) for the Humanoid Levels.


Even as I typed that my mind was screaming "this cannot be right!". So what am I doing wrong?

 

[Pyrex]

A BugBear has 3HD and an LA of +1.

Which means that a Bugbear Fighter 3 is (3HD + 1LA + Ftr3) is a 7th level character.

HD are equivalent to Levels.

The Level Adjustment is how many levels you're penalized for playing a more powerful character.


The Hobgoblin is a 1HD creature with +1LA.
However, creatures with only one racial HD are allowed to swap it out for a PC level; so a Hobgoblin Ftr 3 would be a 4th level character.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

A creature with racial hit dice counts them as his first levels.

Therefore, you don't get x4 skill points for your first level in a class, nor do you get a feat for your first level in a class.

Consider racial hit dice as a multiclass with the Humanoid class.

So, relook at that bugbear of yours. He's LA+1, but has 3 levels in Humanoid. Thus, a "stock" bugbear counts as a level 4 character. If he's a Bugbear Ftr 1, then he's 5th-level: Bgb 3 / Ftr 1 + 1 LA.

Your total effective level is calculated as:

Racial Hit Dice + Class Levels + LA

So, now that you've done everything wrong, , do you want to rewrite your bugbear description, or should I?

EDIT:

Here's the way your Bugbear should look:

Bugbear Fighter 3 (effective level 7th)

+4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha
Spd 30'
Darkvision 60'
+4 Racial Bonus on Move Silently
+3 Natural Armor Bonus
Hit Dice: Max for 1st level of Humanoid (1d8) + 2d8 + 3d10 (plus 6x Con bonus)
BAB: +5
Feats: 1 for 1st racial HD, 1 for 3rd racial HD, Fighter Bonus Feats for levels 1&2 AND 1 feat for 6th level (5 total feats)
Base Saves: Fort...+4, Ref...+4, Will...+2
Skill Points: (6x[2+Int Bonus]) for the Humanoid Levels, (3x[2+Int Bonus]) for Ftr levels
LA: +1

Alternatively:

Bugbear (effective level 4th)

+4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha
Spd 30'
Darkvision 60'
+4 Racial Bonus on Move Silently
+3 Natural Armor Bonus
Hit Dice: Max for 1st level of Humanoid (1d8) + 2d8 (plus 3x Con bonus)
BAB: +2
Feats: 1 for 1st racial HD, 1 for 3rd racial HD (total of 2 feats)
Base Saves: Fort...+1, Ref...+3, Will...+1
Skill Points: (6x[2+Int Bonus]) for the Humanoid Levels
LA: +1

 

[Infiniti2000]

A bugbear Fighter 3 is ECL 7 (+3 HD, +3 Fighter, +1 LA).

 

[irdeggman]

That is because ECL is equal to class level plus LA plus monstrous hit die.

Bugbears have 3 hit die and a +1LA so they are ECL 4 without any class levels.

Hobgoblins have 1 hit die and +1 LA so they are ECL 2 without class levels.

In general you can substitute 1 hit die for a class hit die.

So 3rd level fighter for each would be:

Bugbear 3 (class level) + 3 (racial hit die) + 1 (level adj)) = 7 ECL

Hobgoblin would be 3 (class level) + 1 (racial hit die) + 1 (level adj) = 5 ECL. (Usually the 1 racial hit die is dropped in lieu of the initial class level so 4 ECL)

And the Bugbear would be 6 ECL.

 

[Coredump]

That is because ECL is equal to class level plus LA plus monstrous hit die.

Bugbears have 3 hit die and a +1LA so they are ECL 4 without any class levels.

Hobgoblins have 1 hit die and +1 LA so they are ECL 2 without class levels.

In general you can substitute 1 hit die for a class hit die.

So 3rd level fighter for each would be:

Bugbear 3 (class level) + 3 (racial hit die) + 1 (level adj)) = 7 ECL

Hobgoblin would be 3 (class level) + 1 (racial hit die) + 1 (level adj) = 5 ECL. (Usually the 1 racial hit die is dropped in lieu of the initial class level so 4 ECL)

And the Bugbear would be 6 ECL.

Um, not quite.

The swapping of a class level for a racial hit die is *only* if they have (only) 1 racial hit die.

So the Bugbear will be ECL 7, (not 6), but the Hobgoblin will be ECL 4 (not 5)

 

[Rel]

Ok, I think I'm starting to understand now. So basically the Bugbear has some phat stats but he's effectively being double penalized with both the LA+1 AND the sub-optimal Humanoid levels rather than the more focused Fighter (or whatever character class) levels that another race might take.

Is that pretty much accurate?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Is that pretty much accurate?

Spot on.

Humanoid levels, in particular, are sub-par.

 

[Scion]

Ok, I think I'm starting to understand now. So basically the Bugbear has some phat stats but he's effectively being double penalized with both the LA+1 AND the sub-optimal Humanoid levels rather than the more focused Fighter (or whatever character class) levels that another race might take.

Is that pretty much accurate?

Definately, although there are people around who like to pretend it isnt a double penalty.. I have even had some people tell me that the racial levels were a 'benefit'.

I'd really suggest doing a few builds and come up with your own compromise of balance for your game. Dont worry about changing a few racial things, after all they are pcs and not necissarily exactly the same as everyone else in their race.

Any amount of LA really hurts in a lot of very devious and subtle ways. At some point in the future if you go straight by what is in the MM you may have players who are unhappy with their choice because of all of these little things that nag constantly.

Just need to find a happy medium

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Definately, although there are people around who like to pretend it isnt a double penalty.. I have even had some people tell me that the racial levels were a 'benefit'.

Well, they aren't and they are, respectively ...

... if you're a Dragon, or an Outsider, or [debatedly] a Monstrous Humanoid.