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Please help me with the “one spell cast per round” rule
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<blockquote data-quote="Tormyr" data-source="post: 7318848" data-attributes="member: 6776887"><p>Rules, or parts of rules can be bad. The value of finding the bad rules is they can be changed with house rules, errata, or a new version of the game. Sometimes, like in this case, only part of the rule or its interaction with other rules is bad. </p><p></p><p>I have tried consistently through the thread to say the restriction of the BA spell rule with reaction spells and Action Surge spells is bad and limit the discussion to that narrow window. My main reason has been that keeping everything else the same in a turn but switching the spell's casting time from the slower Action to the faster Bonus Action should not make it more difficult to use reaction spells or Action Surge spells. My apologies if I was not clear on that. I am not interested in this thread in debating whether there should be no limitation around BA spells, the value of rules in general, or anything else. I would like to stay on the point that I brought up: whether this rule was written correctly or could be improved.</p><p></p><p>The limitation of a cantrip with a BA spell is about power. Since this combination can be used every turn as long as there are spell slots, this is limited.</p><p></p><p>Action Surge should always be able to cast a full action spell. Because it is available only once (maybe twice) per short rest, it is not limited. This is evidenced by an eldritch knight being able to cast <em>fireball</em> twice or a 20th-level full spellcaster with 2 levels of fighter being able to cast a 9th and 8th level spell. Changing the casting time of one of the spells used from the slower action to the faster bonus action should not stop the second spell from being an action.</p><p></p><p>Changing the casting time of the spell used from the slower action to the faster bonus action should not stop a spellcaster from using a reaction spell. Therefore, reaction spells should be outside the limitation.</p><p></p><p>Examples include:</p><p></p><p>1. A sorcerer using Quicken to change a spell to a bonus action and not being able to cast <em>shield</em> to stop an opportunity attack. </p><p>2. An Arcane Trickster using Dash and <em>dimension door</em> can use <em>counterspell</em> to stop an enemy's <em>counterspell</em> but cannot if they instead use Dash and <em>misty step</em>.</p><p>3. An Eldritch Knight being able to use Action Surge to cast <em>fireball</em> twice vs not being able to use Action Surge to cast any BA spell and <em>fireball</em></p><p></p><p>There are countless other combinations of action and bonus action spells, but I used these to minimize the differences in a turn. There is no good reason for any of these limitations to exist, and no one has given any examples of why the BA spell restrictions on reaction spells and Action Surge spells are beneficial to players, the DM, or the game. I have said the rule as written is a bad rule because it arbitrarily limits the spellcasters for no good reason. It causes them to do <em>less</em> with shorter spells, and that does not make sense, regardless of campaign setting.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tormyr, post: 7318848, member: 6776887"] Rules, or parts of rules can be bad. The value of finding the bad rules is they can be changed with house rules, errata, or a new version of the game. Sometimes, like in this case, only part of the rule or its interaction with other rules is bad. I have tried consistently through the thread to say the restriction of the BA spell rule with reaction spells and Action Surge spells is bad and limit the discussion to that narrow window. My main reason has been that keeping everything else the same in a turn but switching the spell's casting time from the slower Action to the faster Bonus Action should not make it more difficult to use reaction spells or Action Surge spells. My apologies if I was not clear on that. I am not interested in this thread in debating whether there should be no limitation around BA spells, the value of rules in general, or anything else. I would like to stay on the point that I brought up: whether this rule was written correctly or could be improved. The limitation of a cantrip with a BA spell is about power. Since this combination can be used every turn as long as there are spell slots, this is limited. Action Surge should always be able to cast a full action spell. Because it is available only once (maybe twice) per short rest, it is not limited. This is evidenced by an eldritch knight being able to cast [I]fireball[/I] twice or a 20th-level full spellcaster with 2 levels of fighter being able to cast a 9th and 8th level spell. Changing the casting time of one of the spells used from the slower action to the faster bonus action should not stop the second spell from being an action. Changing the casting time of the spell used from the slower action to the faster bonus action should not stop a spellcaster from using a reaction spell. Therefore, reaction spells should be outside the limitation. Examples include: 1. A sorcerer using Quicken to change a spell to a bonus action and not being able to cast [I]shield[/I] to stop an opportunity attack. 2. An Arcane Trickster using Dash and [I]dimension door[/I] can use [I]counterspell[/I] to stop an enemy's [I]counterspell[/I] but cannot if they instead use Dash and [I]misty step[/I]. 3. An Eldritch Knight being able to use Action Surge to cast [I]fireball[/I] twice vs not being able to use Action Surge to cast any BA spell and [I]fireball[/I] There are countless other combinations of action and bonus action spells, but I used these to minimize the differences in a turn. There is no good reason for any of these limitations to exist, and no one has given any examples of why the BA spell restrictions on reaction spells and Action Surge spells are beneficial to players, the DM, or the game. I have said the rule as written is a bad rule because it arbitrarily limits the spellcasters for no good reason. It causes them to do [I]less[/I] with shorter spells, and that does not make sense, regardless of campaign setting. [/QUOTE]
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