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Please no monster class levels
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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5889069" data-attributes="member: 6668292"><p>Well, only kind of. Let me give an example from my RPG (how old that must get on these boards!). In it, all monsters, PCs, and NPCs follow the same rules for getting any ability. Flight, base attack, hit points, spells, etc. The players know how everything works, and they can try to make whatever type of character they want (as long as it doesn't disrupt the campaign, like a guy who has an aura that kills the other PCs near him; though, technically, the system certainly allows for that).</p><p></p><p>Since the players know that everything is built using the same rules, I can give pretty much anything I want any ability on the fly, and the players accept it. They know they could acquire the same ability, so it doesn't bug them. Sure, sometimes an ability is something only a hit die 12 creature could do (such as Lost magic), and they might recognize that as players. However, if a hit die 1 creature is flying, they know exactly how that's possible, and shrug. It's fair, and they know it.</p><p></p><p>What this does for me, as GM, is free me up from worrying about justifying anything, or from getting stuck in writing up all the details of how it's done. On the fly, I can make a fire elemental dragon that causes explosions of fire when it's damaged, and the reaction of my players is "how do we deal with this?" It's not "that's not fair, I want that ability!" They know they can have it.</p><p></p><p>Basically, what I'm trying to say is that by having everything be on equal footing (in a sense), I can just make stuff up without writing anything down; I just follow the guidelines for attack/AC/skills/HP/etc. on a chart based on how "focused" the creature is, theoretically, in that area. I know that the mechanics will back up pretty much anything I decide to do, and that the players know it, and so we all play, immersed, without wondering "how can he only attack at +4 with +3 to damage, but is able to attack everyone around him?" If they're mechanically intrigued, they say, "oh, he has Whirlwind Attack, but must've paid to bypass the prerequisites."</p><p></p><p>Sure, writing everything up takes longer (25-50 minutes), but the consistent rules give me the freedom to take 5 minutes to consult the guidelines I want, jot the appropriate numbers down, and add a couple abilities. And, if I want to completely wing it, I don't write anything down, I just leave my book open to the guidelines to reference the stat as necessary, and just use abilities I make up as I go along. That's absolutely zero prep work, too, which is the way I usually handle creatures.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I've found that by decoupling things like base attack, hit points, saves, etc. away from levels, it's much easier to achieve this goal. It's possible for the next edition to do this, but I doubt it will. They could make things like saves, attack, AC, hit points, etc. all tied to backgrounds or themes, meaning that adding class levels would be simple.</p><p></p><p>I have a feeling they'll propose the reverse, though: "the Whirling Swordsman theme lets you attack everyone near you, and it doesn't increase your attack bonus (that's what class does). If you want to have an orc make a whirlwind attack without adding class levels, just throw the theme on him!"</p><p></p><p>That, and I doubt they'll completely walk away from 4e's monster generation system. I think that, as guidelines, they're very useful, and should remain. So, that at least makes me happy. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>I say "take Status 3 for nobility, as it comes with the money, title, and political pull you're looking for. What's that? You just want the money without the baggage? Limit Status 3 to only money, and save yourself some character points."</p><p></p><p>Basically, even though it hasn't been offered so far in D&D, it doesn't mean what you've proposed can't be addressed, too. It's a new edition, after all. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 5889069, member: 6668292"] Well, only kind of. Let me give an example from my RPG (how old that must get on these boards!). In it, all monsters, PCs, and NPCs follow the same rules for getting any ability. Flight, base attack, hit points, spells, etc. The players know how everything works, and they can try to make whatever type of character they want (as long as it doesn't disrupt the campaign, like a guy who has an aura that kills the other PCs near him; though, technically, the system certainly allows for that). Since the players know that everything is built using the same rules, I can give pretty much anything I want any ability on the fly, and the players accept it. They know they could acquire the same ability, so it doesn't bug them. Sure, sometimes an ability is something only a hit die 12 creature could do (such as Lost magic), and they might recognize that as players. However, if a hit die 1 creature is flying, they know exactly how that's possible, and shrug. It's fair, and they know it. What this does for me, as GM, is free me up from worrying about justifying anything, or from getting stuck in writing up all the details of how it's done. On the fly, I can make a fire elemental dragon that causes explosions of fire when it's damaged, and the reaction of my players is "how do we deal with this?" It's not "that's not fair, I want that ability!" They know they can have it. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that by having everything be on equal footing (in a sense), I can just make stuff up without writing anything down; I just follow the guidelines for attack/AC/skills/HP/etc. on a chart based on how "focused" the creature is, theoretically, in that area. I know that the mechanics will back up pretty much anything I decide to do, and that the players know it, and so we all play, immersed, without wondering "how can he only attack at +4 with +3 to damage, but is able to attack everyone around him?" If they're mechanically intrigued, they say, "oh, he has Whirlwind Attack, but must've paid to bypass the prerequisites." Sure, writing everything up takes longer (25-50 minutes), but the consistent rules give me the freedom to take 5 minutes to consult the guidelines I want, jot the appropriate numbers down, and add a couple abilities. And, if I want to completely wing it, I don't write anything down, I just leave my book open to the guidelines to reference the stat as necessary, and just use abilities I make up as I go along. That's absolutely zero prep work, too, which is the way I usually handle creatures. I've found that by decoupling things like base attack, hit points, saves, etc. away from levels, it's much easier to achieve this goal. It's possible for the next edition to do this, but I doubt it will. They could make things like saves, attack, AC, hit points, etc. all tied to backgrounds or themes, meaning that adding class levels would be simple. I have a feeling they'll propose the reverse, though: "the Whirling Swordsman theme lets you attack everyone near you, and it doesn't increase your attack bonus (that's what class does). If you want to have an orc make a whirlwind attack without adding class levels, just throw the theme on him!" That, and I doubt they'll completely walk away from 4e's monster generation system. I think that, as guidelines, they're very useful, and should remain. So, that at least makes me happy. As always, play what you like :) I say "take Status 3 for nobility, as it comes with the money, title, and political pull you're looking for. What's that? You just want the money without the baggage? Limit Status 3 to only money, and save yourself some character points." Basically, even though it hasn't been offered so far in D&D, it doesn't mean what you've proposed can't be addressed, too. It's a new edition, after all. As always, play what you like :) [/QUOTE]
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