Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="eriktheguy" data-source="post: 4828505" data-attributes="member: 83662">Wizards has recieved a lot of fire on this forum for their poorly designed system of conditions and saving throws and how they work in various encounters (my opinion). The basis of the system is fine, saving throws are always against the same DC, do not change with level, and have very few bonuses. Conditions are saved for at the end of your turn, so you always suffer from them at least once. The problems arouse fairly quickly though.Some conditions such as stunned or blinded do not sit well with many of the ENworld posters. Stunned pretty much erases your entire turn, and can get ridiculous if you make a few bad saves. I played a fighter once that got stunned by a same level monster, and remained so for 5 turns even despite my allies' 2 heal attempts. This is an extreme example, but I still agree that these conditions can be a little game breaking and aren't really necessary.The problem worsens with solo monsters. Obviously, solo monsters are the prime target for conditions. A stunned solo basically means 5 additional attacks for the party, and a blinded one basically means a +5 bonus to all defenses for the party. You will notice that this is well in excess of the bonuses that even the best powers offer.Solo monsters do gain +5 to saving throws, but this just screws over all the more balanced attacks with 'save ends' effects (combat advantage, ongoing damage, dazed) while not dealing with the issue that a stunned solo always loses an entire turn. Moreover, the solo will still lose at least two turns 20% of the time. That is essentially 10 extra attacks for the party. Combat over.Another problem with the saving throw issue is the wizard's orb of imposition. Oh boy, a potential -4 to saves for a solo monster from level 1. It also gets better with level while enemies saving throw bonuses are static. Any DM will be pissed when the level 30 wizard who stuns Orcus manages to make his chance to save about 30% (with the help of his +8 wis mod and spell focus).One final minor bug is certain attacks which cause 'condition A, save ends' on a hit and 'condition A until the end of your next turn' on a miss. The rogue's 'Easy Target' is a classic example of this. If the rogue hits he is 45% likely to get combat advantage next turn (20% for a solo) and if he misses he is 100% likely to get the combat advantage.I would love to hear the opinions and house rules of the members of this forum, preferably rules that have had some decent play testing. I'm looking for simplicity in house rules, ease of use and book keeping. I've seen some ideas out there that look like a nightmare to implement. I have a few of my own below.Orb of imposition: Once per encounter, immediate interrupt, target within 10 squares succeeds saving throw. Apply a penalty to the save equal to your wisdom mod. The target uses the new result.Stunned:Rather than being unable to take actions, you lose one standard action each round. You may not make opportunity actions.(Now the stunned monster can still move, use minors, and blow action points. This makes a big difference for solos.)Blinded:If a solo monster becomes blinded, it is partially blinded instead. It gets -5 to perception and all enemies gain only regular concealment. If a partially blinded solo is blinded by an attack, or if it fails a save against partial blindness, it becomes blinded.Unconscious:If a solo monster becomes unconscious it is immobilized instead. If it fails a save against this immobilization, or if an effect would make it unconscious during this immobilization, it becomes unconscious.Consecutive saves:Each consecutive save against the same effect after the first gets a cumulative +1 bonus.Weaker save ends effects: ongoing damage, grants combat advantage, and slowed to not grant saves on the first turn.(This is especially important for effects that work for one turn on a miss. Slowed, ongoing and combat advantage are not game breaking, and when they end immediately 50% of the time it is boring. Ongoing 5 only does about 9 damage on average. This fixes the rogue's 'easy target' being better on a miss and gives conditions that aren't stun, daze or blind a decent buff.)</blockquote>

Verification