Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Please Put Spell Blocks in all Modules
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tormyr" data-source="post: 6378818" data-attributes="member: 6776887"><p>With all that I have contributed to this thread, whether you agreed with it or not, your takeaway is that I enjoy going through the extra effort? Conversation about column widths, whether adequate information can be communicated in such a short space, the trade-off between increased spell info and loss of other content is ignored, and starting with an ad hominem attack is the order of the day?</p><p></p><p>I can assure you that I do not enjoy expending more effort on preparation than is necessary and do not think many would enjoy it at all, but I do think I understand why they were not included, and I look for solutions. One solution that seems to be working for is to print the needed spell information ahead of time. Because I am running on an adventure path, I get that opportunity to prepare ahead of time. While those who run a quick pick up game would not have that opportunity, I imagine that the number of pick up games as a percentage of all D&D played is fairly small. That is not to say they are not a valid part of the hobby. One does not need a computer for this preparation either. A stack of note cards and a writing implement would allow for the creation of spell cards, or one note card could be used per NPC with an abbreviated spell info list written on it.</p><p></p><p>While direct combat spells follow a general list of info including attack roll or DC and other information, many other spells do not. Looking at basic D&D, on the first spell page 2 out of the 5 spells could possibly be communicated effectively in two lines. On the second page, 1 out of 4 could be communicated effectively. On the third page, maybe 1 out of 6. If writing out 2-line summaries only works for about 20% of spells (1-line really does not seem to work at all), then it does not seem to really work as a solution. If all spells in stat blocks were represented as 2-line summaries regardless, there would be a lot of information lost, and spells would probably not be used with all of the exceptions, special cases and conditional bonuses that they contain. 4e had spell info in the stat blocks, but it seems like 4e spellcasters had 1/4 to 1/2 the spells of 5e. The full spell information was included, so all the information was available, but other story content did not make it into an adventure because of the long style of 4e stat blocks. This is a problem unique to printed material. If an adventure was digital then it would not have that restriction.</p><p></p><p>Yes, I agree that creatures that are not unique to an adventure (i.e. not in the MM) should not be in an adventure. That is how the Hoard of the Dragon Queen book was written. Its appendices only contain unique backgrounds, NPCs, monsters and magic items. Each item in those categories that is not unique is included by reference.</p><p></p><p>While putting a couple lines per spell does not take up much space per spell, it adds up. There are 102 spells in NPC stat blocks in HotDQ. While I would argue that 2-line summaries are insufficient to communicate spell information, at two lines per spell, that is 204 lines. There are about 120 lines per page, so those lines would take up almost 2 pages. At 96 pages, that is about 2% of the book. So, what get's cut to make room for that? The custom backgrounds and the full page map at the beginning could go. Aside from that, things are much more difficult. The descriptions of map areas are already fairly lean, and the introductions to each chapter could be argued to be necessary. WotC decided that more story content was the way to go, and they did not include spell descriptions in stat blocks. </p><p></p><p>I agree that having the correct spells on hand greatly helps the speed and flow of encounters. While players can (and should!) plan ahead during a round to figure out what their next spell or action should be, the DM does not get that opportunity. Given the decisions they had to make, I think WotC chose the right way to write the spell blocks, but that leaves me without the spell information at my fingertips. While WotC could have included that information, there would be a cost involved. My solution is to print that information ahead of time. Since my weekly game is a 3.5 advenure path converted to 5e, I have to type up all the creatures anyway, and I pretty much know that the party will encounter the NPCs at some point. There are plenty of other solutions to this, including spell cards. Dungeonscape is another. In the end, everyone will have to find a solution that works for them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tormyr, post: 6378818, member: 6776887"] With all that I have contributed to this thread, whether you agreed with it or not, your takeaway is that I enjoy going through the extra effort? Conversation about column widths, whether adequate information can be communicated in such a short space, the trade-off between increased spell info and loss of other content is ignored, and starting with an ad hominem attack is the order of the day? I can assure you that I do not enjoy expending more effort on preparation than is necessary and do not think many would enjoy it at all, but I do think I understand why they were not included, and I look for solutions. One solution that seems to be working for is to print the needed spell information ahead of time. Because I am running on an adventure path, I get that opportunity to prepare ahead of time. While those who run a quick pick up game would not have that opportunity, I imagine that the number of pick up games as a percentage of all D&D played is fairly small. That is not to say they are not a valid part of the hobby. One does not need a computer for this preparation either. A stack of note cards and a writing implement would allow for the creation of spell cards, or one note card could be used per NPC with an abbreviated spell info list written on it. While direct combat spells follow a general list of info including attack roll or DC and other information, many other spells do not. Looking at basic D&D, on the first spell page 2 out of the 5 spells could possibly be communicated effectively in two lines. On the second page, 1 out of 4 could be communicated effectively. On the third page, maybe 1 out of 6. If writing out 2-line summaries only works for about 20% of spells (1-line really does not seem to work at all), then it does not seem to really work as a solution. If all spells in stat blocks were represented as 2-line summaries regardless, there would be a lot of information lost, and spells would probably not be used with all of the exceptions, special cases and conditional bonuses that they contain. 4e had spell info in the stat blocks, but it seems like 4e spellcasters had 1/4 to 1/2 the spells of 5e. The full spell information was included, so all the information was available, but other story content did not make it into an adventure because of the long style of 4e stat blocks. This is a problem unique to printed material. If an adventure was digital then it would not have that restriction. Yes, I agree that creatures that are not unique to an adventure (i.e. not in the MM) should not be in an adventure. That is how the Hoard of the Dragon Queen book was written. Its appendices only contain unique backgrounds, NPCs, monsters and magic items. Each item in those categories that is not unique is included by reference. While putting a couple lines per spell does not take up much space per spell, it adds up. There are 102 spells in NPC stat blocks in HotDQ. While I would argue that 2-line summaries are insufficient to communicate spell information, at two lines per spell, that is 204 lines. There are about 120 lines per page, so those lines would take up almost 2 pages. At 96 pages, that is about 2% of the book. So, what get's cut to make room for that? The custom backgrounds and the full page map at the beginning could go. Aside from that, things are much more difficult. The descriptions of map areas are already fairly lean, and the introductions to each chapter could be argued to be necessary. WotC decided that more story content was the way to go, and they did not include spell descriptions in stat blocks. I agree that having the correct spells on hand greatly helps the speed and flow of encounters. While players can (and should!) plan ahead during a round to figure out what their next spell or action should be, the DM does not get that opportunity. Given the decisions they had to make, I think WotC chose the right way to write the spell blocks, but that leaves me without the spell information at my fingertips. While WotC could have included that information, there would be a cost involved. My solution is to print that information ahead of time. Since my weekly game is a 3.5 advenure path converted to 5e, I have to type up all the creatures anyway, and I pretty much know that the party will encounter the NPCs at some point. There are plenty of other solutions to this, including spell cards. Dungeonscape is another. In the end, everyone will have to find a solution that works for them. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Please Put Spell Blocks in all Modules
Top