Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Please rate Chink in the Armor
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Gaiden" data-source="post: 921210" data-attributes="member: 103"><p>Celebrim,</p><p></p><p>All good points.</p><p></p><p>However, IME (although that may be limited), I have not seen too much rotation between missile and melee combat. Rather, at least PCs, tend to stick with one or the other. Even if they do both, missile generally only occupies the beginning of the combat. After all, who "sheaths" their bow once they are in melee? The bow is dropped in favor of a melee weapon. Moreover, quickdraw is required to get that full attack in. If the opponent wants to revert back to missile he has to drop/sheath his sword and then pick up his bow getting at most two attacks in (w/haste).</p><p></p><p>The other option is to just fire missiles, but than you run into the problems of cover, lack of threatening an area, and AoO while firing while threatened.</p><p></p><p>What I have seen is the chase, where the character chases his opponent around. You brought up the charge, but remember that requires a straight line. This can be very limiting in the right environments, namely, anything other than open space - forest with trees, mountains with rocks, hills with trees/bushes, desert with cacti, room with table/chair/desk/bed, etc.</p><p></p><p>This in general always favors the chased with the caveat that they have a greater movement. Moreover, even if the opponent can charge, the bonus to charge is pitily in comparison to the defensive benefits from the combo I outlaid above. On the other hand that is fairly specific. But it certainly could be made more general. Even if all one did was use expertise, or fight defensively with tumble, the chased still wins out. Especially given the fact that the next round, along with the armor halving, the character now also has an additional -2 to their AC.</p><p></p><p>Too often I notice that it is the case that a character tries to achieve more actions in his turn without keeping track of his/her opponent's number of actions per turn. The advantage for gaining additional actions comes from having a higher number <strong>relative to the opponent</strong>. In this case of this feat, you give your opponent an advantage by reducing your number of actions to his. To offset this balance you need to find a way to reduce his number of actions or increase yours. In general, your opponent can increase his actions the same way you can (e.g. you both can be hasted, for your TWF, the spellcaster has quickened spells, etc.) So, unless your opponent does not have access to these benefits, it is up to you to in some way reduce them. This can simply be done by interposing distance between yourself and your opponent with some sort of obstacle or beyond your opponents charging range. The catch is that while this would normally effect you and your opponent equally - neither of you gets to do anything, you have in fact gained some benefit.</p><p></p><p>So, the point - while it is true that it may be a wash between the stats (which it certainly isn't always - that is completely dependent upon the armor bonus), it is not a wash if you reduce your opponents number of actions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gaiden, post: 921210, member: 103"] Celebrim, All good points. However, IME (although that may be limited), I have not seen too much rotation between missile and melee combat. Rather, at least PCs, tend to stick with one or the other. Even if they do both, missile generally only occupies the beginning of the combat. After all, who "sheaths" their bow once they are in melee? The bow is dropped in favor of a melee weapon. Moreover, quickdraw is required to get that full attack in. If the opponent wants to revert back to missile he has to drop/sheath his sword and then pick up his bow getting at most two attacks in (w/haste). The other option is to just fire missiles, but than you run into the problems of cover, lack of threatening an area, and AoO while firing while threatened. What I have seen is the chase, where the character chases his opponent around. You brought up the charge, but remember that requires a straight line. This can be very limiting in the right environments, namely, anything other than open space - forest with trees, mountains with rocks, hills with trees/bushes, desert with cacti, room with table/chair/desk/bed, etc. This in general always favors the chased with the caveat that they have a greater movement. Moreover, even if the opponent can charge, the bonus to charge is pitily in comparison to the defensive benefits from the combo I outlaid above. On the other hand that is fairly specific. But it certainly could be made more general. Even if all one did was use expertise, or fight defensively with tumble, the chased still wins out. Especially given the fact that the next round, along with the armor halving, the character now also has an additional -2 to their AC. Too often I notice that it is the case that a character tries to achieve more actions in his turn without keeping track of his/her opponent's number of actions per turn. The advantage for gaining additional actions comes from having a higher number [B]relative to the opponent[/B]. In this case of this feat, you give your opponent an advantage by reducing your number of actions to his. To offset this balance you need to find a way to reduce his number of actions or increase yours. In general, your opponent can increase his actions the same way you can (e.g. you both can be hasted, for your TWF, the spellcaster has quickened spells, etc.) So, unless your opponent does not have access to these benefits, it is up to you to in some way reduce them. This can simply be done by interposing distance between yourself and your opponent with some sort of obstacle or beyond your opponents charging range. The catch is that while this would normally effect you and your opponent equally - neither of you gets to do anything, you have in fact gained some benefit. So, the point - while it is true that it may be a wash between the stats (which it certainly isn't always - that is completely dependent upon the armor bonus), it is not a wash if you reduce your opponents number of actions. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Please rate Chink in the Armor
Top