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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 331201" data-attributes="member: 2011">So, you want to make the uber Knockdown feat even more unbalanced?So, you consider Knockdown balanced as written in S&F?Hmmm. Strange. That’s like saying that a feat that gives you a free extra swing if you do 10 points of damage is balanced. Because, that’s fairly close to what this feat does.Granted, Knockdown does not allow you to do extra damage (if using the errataed version), but it does give you an automatic hit on the follow up trip.Cleave only gives you an extra attack if you drop your opponent. Plus, you need an additional roll to hit on the free swing. Most characters at that number of feats can generally do 10 more points of damage more often than they can drop a foe.So, compared to Cleave, the non-errata version of Knockdown will not only give you an extra attack, but that attack will be at +4. And, any remaining attacks that round from you or allies will be at +4. And, your prone opponent cannot do a full round attack next round against you.Power-wise, Knockdown (as written in S&F) is vastly more potent than Cleave.In fact, even with the errataed version of no free swing, it is more potent than Cleave.Just the fact that once you get a full round attack against a same sized creature (for the most part) will tend to result in an eventual trip in that round, hence, further attacks in that full round attack are at +4. Plus, your opponent cannot full round attack back due to having to use up a move equivalent to attack back.Many attacks against one is virtually like having some form of Improved Haste on the character with Knockdown.Knockdown with the errata is worth about 2 normal feats. Knockdown without the errata is easily worth 3 normal feats. It’s just that powerful.</blockquote>

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