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<blockquote data-quote="MoonSong" data-source="post: 6430220" data-attributes="member: 6689464"><p>And what about the players who liked the 3e sorcerer despite all its flaws? </p><p></p><p>Look it from my perspective, in 2e I would never ever touch a mage, not even with the tip of a 10' pole. All bards and clerics for me. When I discovered the sorcerer I approached it as a cleric player, weapons played a big role on it, spells are for utility or whatever the focus of the character is (one of them would typically go to mage armor), Simple weapons were the only clear indication that this class indeed was different from wizards. Simple weapons were about the only constant between editions. And a spear isn't even that overpowered, it causes the same damage as a staff, except it is piercing damage and you can throw it (and it is a symbol of the peasantness of sorcerers, only someone too dettached from the world wouldn't know how to use them. This is something important, sorcerers are a part of the world, they don't necessarily look down upon others or are too disconnected by years of study, who cares about the secrets of the universe? I can do something special, but beyond that I'm fairly normal).</p><p></p><p>How could that be overpowered? check the difference between a 1st level sorcerer and a first level wizard, same hp, same weapons, same number of skills, bit the wizards know three times the number of spells, have two times the availability of them, have more slots per day, and can cast rituals without slots. Sorcerers instead get a cantrip and talk to dragons/be a walking timebomb. Or compare bard with sorcerer, same number of spells per day, but bards have more hp, armor, more weapons (including martial ones) more skills and know more spells (twice the amount) and they only have two cantrips less. Sure simple weapons would break sorcerers, who wants a sorcerer who has a viable option of not blasting? As you have said, it takes more than just proficiency to be a battlefield beast, how comes a simple +2 breaks what is about the weakest caster at low levels?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MoonSong, post: 6430220, member: 6689464"] And what about the players who liked the 3e sorcerer despite all its flaws? Look it from my perspective, in 2e I would never ever touch a mage, not even with the tip of a 10' pole. All bards and clerics for me. When I discovered the sorcerer I approached it as a cleric player, weapons played a big role on it, spells are for utility or whatever the focus of the character is (one of them would typically go to mage armor), Simple weapons were the only clear indication that this class indeed was different from wizards. Simple weapons were about the only constant between editions. And a spear isn't even that overpowered, it causes the same damage as a staff, except it is piercing damage and you can throw it (and it is a symbol of the peasantness of sorcerers, only someone too dettached from the world wouldn't know how to use them. This is something important, sorcerers are a part of the world, they don't necessarily look down upon others or are too disconnected by years of study, who cares about the secrets of the universe? I can do something special, but beyond that I'm fairly normal). How could that be overpowered? check the difference between a 1st level sorcerer and a first level wizard, same hp, same weapons, same number of skills, bit the wizards know three times the number of spells, have two times the availability of them, have more slots per day, and can cast rituals without slots. Sorcerers instead get a cantrip and talk to dragons/be a walking timebomb. Or compare bard with sorcerer, same number of spells per day, but bards have more hp, armor, more weapons (including martial ones) more skills and know more spells (twice the amount) and they only have two cantrips less. Sure simple weapons would break sorcerers, who wants a sorcerer who has a viable option of not blasting? As you have said, it takes more than just proficiency to be a battlefield beast, how comes a simple +2 breaks what is about the weakest caster at low levels? [/QUOTE]
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