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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jbear" data-source="post: 5378076" data-attributes="member: 75065">It seems that the error was an initial one. If the campaign was based on a group of co-operative villains, including plot hooks that would require bravery and self endangerment are not really the way to go. At least, not without dangling significant personal reward and benefits that far outweigh the risks in front of them at the same time.Characters playing villains is perhaps the one thing I don't allow in my game. Unaligned is as far as i will go down that path. Even when a Drow Warlock joined our game it was allowed only on the condition that she be unaligned and have some sense of honour, enough that she would conceivably cooperate with the group until 'her debt' was paid.From a DM's perspective I lay things out simple at the start of a game. 'This is what we got guys, this is the adventure. It will expand from there and further up the road you will come to meaningful crossroads, but I only have so much time to prepare this stuff ... so here we go ...'From a player point of view I find the scarcity of plot hooks and action boring and even frustrating (though I bite my tongue). I want to be part of an epic story and hence so do my characters. I follow even the slightest whiff of a clue, as for hooks ... hook, line and sinker. I consider that part of the fun of the game. What can be frustrating is when you do investigate what seems like a hook, or a clue, some interesting carrot dangled by the DM and all you find out is nothing at the end of it. Or when you know a clue must be there but you have to look in exactly the right place in the right way to find it. This can become quite tedious. One example of this that springs to mind was when our characters came into the enfirmary of a mansion and discovered that many of the bandages had been used, herbs etc etc. I then began to search for the bloodied foot prints out of the room to see where they lead. Obviosly my perception roll failed because I found nothing. Despite the fact that I knew it had to be there. My character really has no motivation to think that his perception roll has failed. He just thinks there is nothing there to be found (due to his failed perception roll). But this was the ONLY clue in the entire mansion that lead to the next encounter hidden inside. After searching fruitlessly for ages we came back and searched again and some else rolled high enough to spot the blood which I knew was there as a player from the outset. Others my have a different opinion, but this kind of one hidden clue that is totally necessary for the plot to advance, which remains hidden even when you actively search for it (because you know its there) is not fun at all. And it can make following a plot quite tiresome.Another thing that I have seen happen is when the PCs find the clue perhaps too fast for the DMs liking, lets say they quickly discover the ancient runes written on the wall in archaic elven, which of course the elf translates. You follow the instructions and unleash upon the earth a terrible evil. What??!? Oh ... the writing was a lie? No, you only translated part of the writing on the wall... What?!??Ok, so the last example was actually a fun one, but it still raises the question, how explicit does a player have to be in order to get ALL the necessary information? Is the player expected to ask after he has been given the translation information: 'Is there any more writing on the wall?'So taking my experiences from both sides of the screen I'd say everyone has to do their part to make a game enjoyable, fast paced and exciting (at least in the style of game i enjoy).</blockquote>

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