Plug my hole! (my players stay out!)

[Asmor]

I'm working on some stuff for my campaign in the very near future... And one important detail has a glaring plot hole that I need plugged up. Not sure if it'll come up next session or not, but it will come up soon! But, before I get into that...

MY PLAYERS STAY OUT!









...







Ok, so here's the gist of it: Basically the characters are going to be tasked with building an army to fight a powerful foe which few people known about, fewer believe in, and fewer still aren't under its control. The PCs need to assemble an army of powerful allies who are willing and able to fight this enemy.

Here's where the plot hole comes in... I'm going to give them an item of some sort that creates a portal to a demiplane where time goes by faster than the material plane. Basically, they send their recruits to that plane to train (and collect them). The plane has an entity called The Caretaker, a ball of energy which serves as an advisor and which provides for the needs of its inhabitants.

Now, I need to find a reason to prevent the players from staying there to train themselves, but it's got to keep in mind the following things:

1: The recruits should be expected to stay there, instead of, say some of the more powerful ones travelling with the PCs. This prevents something like "You can't stay in the plane for more than X days."

2: Allow the players to enter the plane on occasion to bring new people, and to mingle/seek advice/etc. Hell, I'm not even opposed to them going there to train, but ideally they shouldn't be able to go there just because they want to rest for 8 hours between every fight.

Posting this has helped me reason it out a bit, and now I'm thinking one possibility would be to explain that once someone leaves the plane, they can't return for a couple days.

However, I'm still not totally satisfied with that... In particular, I'd like to keep open the option of pulling out specific recruits on occasion to handle particular situations. For example, if they needed someone who speaks Undercommon, they could pull out their dark-skinned-dual-scimitar-wielding-elf-ranger-who's-not-Drizzt. But then they need to say "Ok, good job, now back in the hole ya go!"

So... Any ideas you have would be very helpful!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Possibly the best thread title ever.

 

[Azrael Nightstar]

I think your idea of limiting travel to and from is going in the right direction. I'd tweak it a bit with one of the following options:

1) Limit the PCs ability to travel. The item they use has charges and they can't expend such a precious resource just to take a nap or heal up.

2) Make frequent travel unappealing. Maybe making the transition is a rather unpleasant affair; it's painful, exhausting, or is instantaneous in "real-time" but is experienced by the traveler as a sensation of falling for an hour or more (hard to take advantage of that sort of time "advantage" )

3) Make travel risky. It probably wouldn't have to be a terribly huge risk, but the possibility that you'll go mad, lose a limb, or get spit out in a random part of the multiverse the next time you step through that portal will make you think twice about doing it willy-nilly. This one might be particularly attractive in your case if the risk is tied to how many times you've made the transition, or how frequently. If your players only go when they need to, they don't have to worry, and their Ranger friend will be just fine going 2 or 3 times (probably...) but the more they go, the worse an idea it is...

4) If you don't like these options, my suggestion for explaining why "it just can't be done" when it comes to frequent travel is that it irritates the Caretaker. Travel might be unpleasant to It, or Its just particular about Its plane, or whatever. And since It calls the shots, the PCs have to play by the Caretaker's rules if they want to hold onto their tactical advantage.

 

[Baron Opal]

There may be a very specific means of getting into the demiplane. You have to be on top of the hill in the stone circle at dawn on Tuesdays. Only 20 people fit inside the stone circle at a time, and if you recruit that sphinx you heard about then that's 8 or so less people that week. If the party jumps in that's X people less this week.

 

[robberbaron]

If your main concern is the players staying in this demiplane then give them something else to do.
Have them hunt down a fabled army-destroying magic item or somesuch thing.

[Edit] They don't actually have to find it

 

[Asmor]

I think your idea of limiting travel to and from is going in the right direction. I'd tweak it a bit with one of the following options:

1) Limit the PCs ability to travel. The item they use has charges and they can't expend such a precious resource just to take a nap or heal up.

That's a great idea right there!

2) Make frequent travel unappealing. Maybe making the transition is a rather unpleasant affair; it's painful, exhausting, or is instantaneous in "real-time" but is experienced by the traveler as a sensation of falling for an hour or more (hard to take advantage of that sort of time "advantage" )

This could work too... I think I'd do something like going to the plane takes 24 hours, which passes instantly in the eyes of the traveller but a day still passes none the less. Not much of a downside for someone entering the plane once or twice, but could really be an issue if you're trying to do something that's even slightly time-sensitive.

3) Make travel risky. It probably wouldn't have to be a terribly huge risk, but the possibility that you'll go mad, lose a limb, or get spit out in a random part of the multiverse the next time you step through that portal will make you think twice about doing it willy-nilly. This one might be particularly attractive in your case if the risk is tied to how many times you've made the transition, or how frequently. If your players only go when they need to, they don't have to worry, and their Ranger friend will be just fine going 2 or 3 times (probably...) but the more they go, the worse an idea it is...

Another good idea. Not so sure that a flat chance is the right direction ("Hey, new buddy! Just step through here and you'll probably arrive safely! What? Oh, don't worry, there's only like a 1 in 20 chance of you getting sent to the Nine Hells."), but making it more risky based on how often they go in does sounds good. Maybe something like a cumulative 1% chance of defect every time they enter.

4) If you don't like these options, my suggestion for explaining why "it just can't be done" when it comes to frequent travel is that it irritates the Caretaker. Travel might be unpleasant to It, or Its just particular about Its plane, or whatever. And since It calls the shots, the PCs have to play by the Caretaker's rules if they want to hold onto their tactical advantage.

Probably the simplest and easiest way, and they say the simplest answers are usually the best. The campaign's already got a lot of powerful NPCs dictating to the players what they should be doing, fate and all that, so I'm not sure if making the Caretaker so heavy handed is a good thing, for reinforcing the theme, or a bad thing, for overdoing the theme.

There may be a very specific means of getting into the demiplane. You have to be on top of the hill in the stone circle at dawn on Tuesdays. Only 20 people fit inside the stone circle at a time, and if you recruit that sphinx you heard about then that's 8 or so less people that week. If the party jumps in that's X people less this week.

That wouldn't really work so well simply because I want to tie the planar travel to a device which the PCs can keep on their persons. However, that does give me an idea of maybe using the finite charges idea above, but instead give it so many charges/week or /month or whatever instead of just a flat number.

If your main concern is the players staying in this demiplane then give them something else to do.
Have them hunt down a fabled army-destroying magic item or somesuch thing.

[Edit] They don't actually have to find it

Oh, I fully intend to keep them busy. Let's just say that they'll have to find time to assemble their army while they're still working on ironing out the complications preventing them from completing their main quest. However my primary concern is them using the plane to rest between every fight, or to escape from every difficult situation.

So... Thanks for all the ideas all, you're giving me lots of great matieral! Keep it coming!

 

[Asmor]

Possibly the best thread title ever.

I aim to please.

 

[carborundum]

Make it so that you arrive exhausted (as your internal sense of time passing gets hammered) and need 8 hours rest to get used to the time differential. Bingo - no point in resting there any more, unless you have at least 16 hours to waste that is.

Heck, make it 12 hours rest, or 24!

 

[TwinBahamut]

Perhaps the best thing to do would simply say that, in order to leave the demi-plane, there has to be someone calling the person back from the outside. Then, key the device to the characters, so that only they can send people into the demi-plane or pull them out.

With those two rules in effect, it becomes impossible to send the whole party into the device at once, and very risky to leave just one guy behind to pull the whole party out later (especially if you make it clear that ambushes are possible). At the same time, NPCs can come and go easily, but can't control the device, so are best left inside when not needed.

It certainly isn't perfect, and doesn't match your criteria perfectly, but combined with something else it might work, and I like the idea of the ultimate bad scenerio being the characters stuck for eternity within their own demiplane, and being doomed to die of old age before the next guy with the power to use the device walks by.

 

[Herobizkit]

Perhaps each use of the dimensional gate has a percent chance of attracting the attention of 1-4 Time Elementals... (copied from Wizards Community and cited from the D20 adventure The Tide of Years by Penumbra press. The elemental is listed as OGC in the adventure.) You could change the Size of them as well as per the "scaling monsters" section of the MM.

[If you don't like this version, the "original" print is in the old skool 1ed Monster Manual II.]

Time Elemental, Huge
Huge Elemental (Time)
Hit Dice: 16d8+80 (136 hp)
Initiative: +11 (+7 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Speed: fly 50 ft. (perfect)
Armor Class: 19 (–2 size, +7 Dex, +4 natural)
Attacks: Slam +17/+12/+7 melee
Damage: Slam 1d12+6 and Hastening of Age effects
Face/Reach: 10 ft. by 5 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Hastening of Age
Special Qualities: Elemental, damage reduction 10/+2, time subtype
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +17, Will +5
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 25, Con 18, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11
Skills: Listen +18, Spot +18
Feats: Dodge, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Weapon Finesse (slam)
Climate/Terrain: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 7
Treasure: Great Temporal Crystal (adventure related)
Alignment: Neutral

Elemental: Immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, and stunning. Not subject to critical hits.

Hastening of Age (Sp): As the new cleric spell (listed below). The time elemental is able to use this once per round as part of its slam attack. Creatures and humanoids affected by this suffer a reduction to their Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity ability scores. Hastening of Age can be dispelled by Restoration, but not Lesser Restoration; it is a permanent ability drain. Wellspring of youth can also counteract it. The effects of multiple hits are cumulative.

Time Subtype (Ex): The use of spells which manipulate time acts as an energy source for the elemental. Rather than affecting the elemental as it would other creatures, such a spell cast within 100 feet of it the spell imbues the elemental with 1d8 hit points +1 per caster level used for the spell, up to +5. These are permanent hp, which raise both the elemental's current hp and its maximum. Using the Temporal Shard (adventure related) will give the elemental 1d8+5 hp each time it's activated.

A time elemental will fight until it loses all of its hit points, and so no longer has enough temporal energy left to maintain itself.

HASTENING OF AGE

Necromancy [Time]
Level: Clr 7, Sor/Wiz 7, Time 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Ray of negative temporal energy
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes

Used as a directed attack, the creature struck ages at an extremely rapid rate - cells degrade and bones turn brittle before their time. The victim of this attack ages one step as per the chart below; his strength, constitution, and dexterity are modified the amount specified above his new age. A character's ability score cannot be reduced below 1 in this way. Undergoing hastening of age multiple times produces cumulative affects, but casting the spell on a character of Venerable Age changes him only cosmetically; the spell cannot kill. When aged in this way, you may feel and look older, but the time allotted to your soul remains the same; for instance, though an Adult human character is now Middle Aged for all intents and purposes, he still has his full original 55+2d20 years left to live. Note that the bonuses to Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma given to normally aging characters do not apply to this spell, as the target doesn't undergo the experiences that would add to these abilities.

Much like energy drain, hastening of age requires that twenty-four hours after the attack the subject must make a Fortitude saving throw (using the spell DC) to negate the effects. If he fails, the damage to his abilities and his apparent age become permanent. Success means that the effects begin to fade away. The permanent reduction to a character's ability scores can be dispelled by restoration, but not lesser restoration; it is a permanent ability drain. Wellspring of youth can also counteract it. Hastening of Age can only affect mortal creatures that suffer the affects of normal aging; undead creatures and the like are immune.Effects of Hastening of Age

. +3 Str, Dex, -1 Str, Dex, -2 Str, Dex, -3 Str, Dex,
. & Con & Con & Con & Con

Race Childhood Adulthood Middle Aged Old Age Venerable Age

Human 7 years 15 years 35 years 53 years 70 years
Dwarf 20 years 40 years 125 years 188 years 250 years
Elf 55 110 175 263 350
Gnome 20 40 100 150 200
Half-elf 10 20 62 93 125
Half-orc 7 14 30 45 60
Halfling 10 20 50 75 100