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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nonlethal Force" data-source="post: 2964747" data-attributes="member: 35788">Very true.  Personaly, I use PB method because I can say to player: "Go, make characters on your free time.  Make 80 different varieties of the character. if you want.  Adjust the ability scores the way you want them.  When you have one, come to the next gaming session and we'll start playing.  With PB, the players can always be working on new concept ideas because they don't need to be in my presence to roll the stats.  And ... rolled stats do make or break a concept.  If I roll a 16, 14, 14, 14, 10, 8 I have a much different potential than rolling an 18, 16, 12, 11, 11, 9.  When you roll and the DM requires the rolls done in their presence, it also basically assumes character gen is done in the DMs presence.  That takes time.  Nothing wrong with it, mind you.  But it does take time.Sure you can, so long as a 14 an 12 are considered good in your campaign!  I don't mean this to be a flippant or snippy reply, btw.  i mean it seriously.  Some players (and DMs) play in games where the only good starting stats are 16 and up.  If that's the perspective of the game, then you are right that a paladin can't be played on a 32 point buy.  But if the game assumes that 12s are okay, 14s are good, and anything above 14 is super and unusual then the paladin can be build just fine on a 32 point buy.Look at the sample "Knight Protector" in CW.  STR (21) DEX (13) CON (14) INT (12) WIS (12) CHA (16).  The character is a 16th level character!  Assuming for a second that all four of his ability boosts for gaining characte levels went into STR, then it makes the character:STR 17 - 13 ptsDEX 13 - 5 ptsCON 14 - 6 ptsINT 12 - 4 ptsWIS 12 - 4 ptsCHA 16 - 10 ptsThat's 42 pts ... but that's also not taking into account any magical ability boosters that a 16th level character would have.  I think it is fairly safe to say that I could build a Paladin/Knight Protector than the one in the Comple Warrior with better stats on a 32 point buy.  For that matter, a 32 point buy can likely build a better X/Y than anything presented by WotC books because they use less than a 32 point buy to generate their examples!My point is not that you are wrong, at all.  My point is that the classes that sufer from MADD are totally relative to the assumed power established as normal.</blockquote>

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