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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dash Dannigan" data-source="post: 768714" data-attributes="member: 6306">Ahem, for those punks who don't like randomness and prefer the rigidity of point-buy system, why roll dice at all then? Just sit down and roll out the Ol' game mat and start moving those minis around playing chess, er a more systematic version of D&D with thousands of charts to look up and no die rolls. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Alright, well that would be silly. So what I'm seeing here is that point-buyers think that "super-lucky" stats unbalance characters and provide an unfair advantage. Plain and simple, that's it. And in case we have a group of folk that are competative and a little petty (admit it, we all can be sometimes eh? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> ) we no longer have to worry about those silly complaints:  "he's uber, look at him! He SO, well, Uber and I'm......not!"-------------------------------------------------------------------------------So with the advent of point-buy we prevent this disastrous inequity, we can NOW:-All characters will have equivalent bonuses and minuses for their stats at the beginning of play to make things perfectly fair!Gee that makes about as much sense as curtailing the numerous other variables and chance inequities that crop up during play. Hmmm, what other bits of randomness must we curtail to enhance this so-called "balance-of-characters"?? How about:-We must have an even magic item distribution at ALL times!-All crits and fumbles MUST be equally distributed amongst the party members during the same encounter!-All skill successes and failures should be equal over time and in proportion to the importance of the skill checks!-All hack must be provided in direct proportion to drama, the hack/drama proportionality must remain constant through the average play period (being 4 hours). This balances those players who are extremely capable at either hack or drama, those in-betweeners receive both in equal amounts and inherently balance themselves. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Okay, I had a little fun there, but in all seriousness the situation is jokingly analagous to the beginning of a hundred meter dash!There they are, our players lined up at the starting line, each geared up and ready for play but a couple of the players see that one or two other players have started a foot or two ahead of them, they point and loudly cry FOUL! So, point-buyers, we'll assume it is perfectly alright to point-buy to ensure equity at the start of play, but realize that once the game has begun it's every PC for themselves! Afterall, this is how D&D is run, chance weighs heavily. So we accept the fact that inequities may or may not crop up during play and take it with a mug of ale and a grin, again it's "the game".What these players don't realize is that during character generation the game (or the race) has already in fact begun. The same "random chance" and every PC for themself mentality should already be in effect (as it is dutring the "game"). And yet it is not.It's as if the game doesn't begin for some groups until the DM announces "The dwarf, the cleric, and the elf walk into a bar..." and yet, once character generation has started hasn't the game already begun? If the "no-holds barred" , "can't help chance, it's just the way the game is played man", and "that's life dude, you get citted and your dead..." attitude is accepted as part of game play why not during character generation?Why? I'll tell you why, because we believe as active participants we influence the game with our character's actions and that THIS combined with random chance provides us with a result that may not be equitable to each player's character but remains somehow to be "fair". During character generation we do not get a "chance" to act or take an action or in any way influence our die roll with modifiers due to an eloquent speech or a cover bonus.--------------------------------------------------------------------------Nay, I don't believe this is really about point-buy versus random dice roll. It's more about the way individuals view ourselves, believe it or not, and our attitude:Those who believe inherently that their character's actions more often than not takes precedence over chance (the paladin, as long as he stays true, and makes all the right decisions will in the end prevail or the loathsome rogue that calculates his every move in the end will triumph over traps and adversity!). These are the point-buyers. Those folk who believe that random chance cannot be helped, and that more often than not chance takes precedence over action (the fighter, an excellent tactician, understands that even if she battles the giants with precision she may still fall to the lucky goblin with the spear that her name written all over it, or the battle mage that prepares his complex assortment of spells and executes them in powerful order may yet fall to the lucky halfling that weathered his spells balancing a dagger in hand!). These are our lowly random dice rollers.Neither one is more correct than the other. I personally believe that random dice rolling is truer to the spirit of the game and heroic (that a lowly beggar halfling could some day rise to topple the terrible despot despite the odds!). But that's just me.I think with the advent of D&D 3e we have a better constructed and balanced game system that provides a fair framework that now allows for independent actions to carry more weight with greater freedom than previous editions of D&D. As a result we see the preponderance of point-buyers who enjoy this new found freedom and don't want to part with it (and yet retain the Ol' dangerous feel of D&D random chance!) even during character generation which technically is "before" the game really starts so... Eh, perhaps I'm just blowin' smoke though...Die rolling forever!!! *the paladin shouts as he is overwhelmed by the "hoard" of point-buyers!* Haha!! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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