Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Arial Black" data-source="post: 7212065" data-attributes="member: 6799649"><p>Your posts have carried the assumption that there are exactly <strong>two</strong> stat generation methods: one which gives you absolute control (point-buy), and one which gives you no control at all (rolling). Of course, rolling and <em>arranging</em> does give <em>some </em>control, while point-buy does <em>not</em> give you total control of your stats, or control over the number of points, or the possibility of lower than 8 or higher than 15, so hardly 'absolute control'.</p><p></p><p>But the reality is that there are shades of grey between these extremes; it's not a coin, it's a spectrum.</p><p></p><p>Each extreme has its own advantages and disadvantages, and this is also true of the methods between. The difference is that those who are going for a method somewhere on the spectrum are doing so in order to try and get the best aspects of both extremes, while suffering the fewest weaknesses of either method.</p><p></p><p>For example, the (valid) complaint about the spread of results among PCs is one of the weaknesses of rolling, but you talk as if the <em>only</em> valid solution to this is point-buy (and a specific 27 points at that!), when there are many random methods which nevertheless ensure the exact same total for every PC. Would you walk away from <em>that?</em> You give the impression that you would walk away from every single game that is not exactly 27 point point-buy, <em>even if another method would 'solve' your problems re: spread of results! That</em> is what seems absurd to me. "You've solved all the complaints I had, but I'm walking out anyway!", seems to be your position.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yet if all the players had the same array, then would you walk away if that array worked out at 20 points? Or 40 points? Or 26 or 28? After all, every player has the same array.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're lucky enough to be in a game rich environment. Most of us are not so fortunate.</p><p></p><p>In my entire (nearly 40 years) of D&D, I NEVER used point-buy; it offended me on many levels. Of course, that offense is subjective and not something I can use to convince others, but I can advocate for some methods over others, and so can anyone else.</p><p></p><p>That changed when I got a chance to play in Pathfinder, 4E, and 5E organised play. I still hated point-buy, but unlike you in your game rich environment it was either point-buy or no game at all.</p><p></p><p>I chose to play. My misgivings were still there, but instead of taking my metaphorical bat and ball home I decided to exploit the point-buy system as much as I could, while still creating characters I liked. My first Pathfinder PC bought two 7s (the lowest possible) so that I could afford high scores in the stats I wanted. For my next PC, the array I bought was 7/7/7/8/18/18, and I would have reduced the 8 to a 7 if that extra 2 build points could've been used.</p><p></p><p>But I still liked my PCs, because I made them and I make PCs I like. If the points total had been reduced by 5 points my ability to make the PCs I like would be unchanged.</p><p></p><p>If, like you, I'd been lucky enough to be in a game rich environment I would not have chosen those point-buy games, but the lack of non-point buy didn't make me walk away. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Perhaps a bit of hyperbole of my own. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arial Black, post: 7212065, member: 6799649"] Your posts have carried the assumption that there are exactly [B]two[/B] stat generation methods: one which gives you absolute control (point-buy), and one which gives you no control at all (rolling). Of course, rolling and [I]arranging[/I] does give [I]some [/I]control, while point-buy does [I]not[/I] give you total control of your stats, or control over the number of points, or the possibility of lower than 8 or higher than 15, so hardly 'absolute control'. But the reality is that there are shades of grey between these extremes; it's not a coin, it's a spectrum. Each extreme has its own advantages and disadvantages, and this is also true of the methods between. The difference is that those who are going for a method somewhere on the spectrum are doing so in order to try and get the best aspects of both extremes, while suffering the fewest weaknesses of either method. For example, the (valid) complaint about the spread of results among PCs is one of the weaknesses of rolling, but you talk as if the [I]only[/I] valid solution to this is point-buy (and a specific 27 points at that!), when there are many random methods which nevertheless ensure the exact same total for every PC. Would you walk away from [I]that?[/I] You give the impression that you would walk away from every single game that is not exactly 27 point point-buy, [I]even if another method would 'solve' your problems re: spread of results! That[/I] is what seems absurd to me. "You've solved all the complaints I had, but I'm walking out anyway!", seems to be your position. Yet if all the players had the same array, then would you walk away if that array worked out at 20 points? Or 40 points? Or 26 or 28? After all, every player has the same array. You're lucky enough to be in a game rich environment. Most of us are not so fortunate. In my entire (nearly 40 years) of D&D, I NEVER used point-buy; it offended me on many levels. Of course, that offense is subjective and not something I can use to convince others, but I can advocate for some methods over others, and so can anyone else. That changed when I got a chance to play in Pathfinder, 4E, and 5E organised play. I still hated point-buy, but unlike you in your game rich environment it was either point-buy or no game at all. I chose to play. My misgivings were still there, but instead of taking my metaphorical bat and ball home I decided to exploit the point-buy system as much as I could, while still creating characters I liked. My first Pathfinder PC bought two 7s (the lowest possible) so that I could afford high scores in the stats I wanted. For my next PC, the array I bought was 7/7/7/8/18/18, and I would have reduced the 8 to a 7 if that extra 2 build points could've been used. But I still liked my PCs, because I made them and I make PCs I like. If the points total had been reduced by 5 points my ability to make the PCs I like would be unchanged. If, like you, I'd been lucky enough to be in a game rich environment I would not have chosen those point-buy games, but the lack of non-point buy didn't make me walk away. Perhaps a bit of hyperbole of my own. :D [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats
Top