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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7219301" data-attributes="member: 22779">Your definition of gimped is VERY different from mine.&nbsp; Why does a Barbarian need all that?&nbsp; Why not 12 Con and 15 Dex.&nbsp; You're only losing 1 HP.&nbsp; Or, conversely, what does a Barbarian need Dex for?And, to put it another way, you're saying that to not be gimped, I'd need FOUR 15's in my stats?&nbsp; Seriously?It has been thrown out the window.&nbsp; A 5e Ogre has a 19 strength.&nbsp; You're telling me that a significant portion of humans are as strong as an ogre at 1st level?&nbsp; After all, any human with a base 18 bumps to 19 - Ogre strength.&nbsp; In 1e, you had to get that 18 and THEN the 00 strength which was only available to a few classes.&nbsp; In fact, it was outright impossible for ANYONE outside of the fighter types to be that strong.But, if we're going by the 3-18 bell curve, then 1 in 218 humans is as strong as an ogre.&nbsp; And that's considered &quot;realistic&quot;?&nbsp; Seriously?5e is like 1e.&nbsp; The vast majority of beings just simply don't have stats at all.&nbsp; Normal Men didn't have Strength scores.&nbsp; In fact, outside of special NPC's and a couple of monsters, NO ONE had a strength score.&nbsp; Other than PC's of course.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Besides, if we're presuming that 3-18 bell curve because that's what PC's are on, why wouldn't we presume the same thing if we're using point buy?&nbsp; 3e specifically did this actually.&nbsp; NPC's were assumed to have a specific array.&nbsp; Having higher than that actually changed their CR value and made them &quot;elite&quot;.&nbsp; Since virtually no edition EVER presumed that the population fell on the 3-18 bell curve for stats, I'm rather baffled why this is even a consideration now.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7219301, member: 22779"] Your definition of gimped is VERY different from mine. Why does a Barbarian need all that? Why not 12 Con and 15 Dex. You're only losing 1 HP. Or, conversely, what does a Barbarian need Dex for? And, to put it another way, you're saying that to not be gimped, I'd need FOUR 15's in my stats? Seriously? It has been thrown out the window. A 5e Ogre has a 19 strength. You're telling me that a significant portion of humans are as strong as an ogre at 1st level? After all, any human with a base 18 bumps to 19 - Ogre strength. In 1e, you had to get that 18 and THEN the 00 strength which was only available to a few classes. In fact, it was outright impossible for ANYONE outside of the fighter types to be that strong. But, if we're going by the 3-18 bell curve, then 1 in 218 humans is as strong as an ogre. And that's considered "realistic"? Seriously? 5e is like 1e. The vast majority of beings just simply don't have stats at all. Normal Men didn't have Strength scores. In fact, outside of special NPC's and a couple of monsters, NO ONE had a strength score. Other than PC's of course. :D Besides, if we're presuming that 3-18 bell curve because that's what PC's are on, why wouldn't we presume the same thing if we're using point buy? 3e specifically did this actually. NPC's were assumed to have a specific array. Having higher than that actually changed their CR value and made them "elite". Since virtually no edition EVER presumed that the population fell on the 3-18 bell curve for stats, I'm rather baffled why this is even a consideration now. [/QUOTE]

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