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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7220289" data-attributes="member: 23751">A Mary Sue has no weaknesses.&nbsp; In 1e and 2e, a 12 is far from being a good stat.&nbsp; In 3e, a +1 wasn't worth much.&nbsp; Saves were geared so that a +1 in a weak save meant about a much as a chicken sandwhich in a weak save.&nbsp; All those untrained skills that used that +1 were similarly worthless, since you would still need a 14 on the roll to make even a 15 DC.&nbsp; 4e I don't know well.&nbsp; 5e takes even more away from stats and moves the power into class abilities and spells.&nbsp; A +1 in a stat your class doesn't use means very, very little.&nbsp; So even 3 16's and 3 12's would still not result in anything resembling a Mary Sue.Now, if you've invented your own definition for it, so be it, but that renders it useless as a term to be applied in this thread.It's a lot less than .5%.&nbsp; 0.46 will have AN 18, but it might not be in strength.&nbsp; Since we're discussing averages, we have to multiply the number of commoners who have to roll stats by 6 in order to find one that has an 18 in strength.&nbsp; So 1 in 1296 will have a 19 strength after racial bonuses.&nbsp; That gives us 0.077 of the population being as strong as an average ogre.&nbsp; They still won't be as strong as an above average ogre, which would be pretty common in an ogre population.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 7220289, member: 23751"] A Mary Sue has no weaknesses. In 1e and 2e, a 12 is far from being a good stat. In 3e, a +1 wasn't worth much. Saves were geared so that a +1 in a weak save meant about a much as a chicken sandwhich in a weak save. All those untrained skills that used that +1 were similarly worthless, since you would still need a 14 on the roll to make even a 15 DC. 4e I don't know well. 5e takes even more away from stats and moves the power into class abilities and spells. A +1 in a stat your class doesn't use means very, very little. So even 3 16's and 3 12's would still not result in anything resembling a Mary Sue. Now, if you've invented your own definition for it, so be it, but that renders it useless as a term to be applied in this thread. It's a lot less than .5%. 0.46 will have AN 18, but it might not be in strength. Since we're discussing averages, we have to multiply the number of commoners who have to roll stats by 6 in order to find one that has an 18 in strength. So 1 in 1296 will have a 19 strength after racial bonuses. That gives us 0.077 of the population being as strong as an average ogre. They still won't be as strong as an above average ogre, which would be pretty common in an ogre population. [/QUOTE]

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