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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7227988" data-attributes="member: 996">Guidelines as Vaguely Outlined inspite of Blatant Contradictions, maybe.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />   (GAVOIBC? nah) That works well enough for random generation, as well.  Once you've rolled in roll-and-arrange generation, you have exactly the same ability to shuffle stats around to create the concept you want.  You could even roll exactly that same array.  The two are basically equivalent, as far as that goes.  The difference being that if you form your concept ahead of time, it can be informed by foreknowledge of the array method, while conversely, if you don't have a clear idea what you want, it may be inspired by the array that results from the random method.The advantages of each method are clear.  Both give the exact same degrees of freedom in designing the character you want: the ability to arrange scores as you like.  Array works better for mulling over a concept before you generate it, since the array is a known parameter.  Random has the clear advantage of possibly inspiring a character idea when you see what you've rolled.Neither is exactly ideal for building the character you wanted before you started that process.  Array gives you two good, two modest, one average and one low stat.  If your concept fits that, fine, if it doesn't, you'll fall short.  By the same token, random gives you six stats that may each, independently, be game-breakingly-high, good, modest, average, low, bad, or character-wreckingly abysmal.  The resulting array may or may not coincidentally work for your concept.   Clearly neither array nor random generation come anywhere near doing that.   Point-buy does let everyone at the table play the concept they want, within the context of the party and the parameters of the game.  As has been pointed out, the parameters with random generation are 3-18 for each stat pre-racial.  So, if you want to play a character who is very strong, very smart, and very charismatic, you can, if you happen to roll three high stats.  If you happen to roll two moderately high stats, you can't.  So you can't remotely 'play what you want' you can just make the best of what the dice give you.  Even if you do get three good stats, someone else may end up being stronger/smarter/more-charismatic than you, in addition to being super-tough, say, possibly even by a large margin, undercutting your concept relative to the table.   Not true, actually.  Rather, it would have to let you play any combination of six scores that are /possible under that character generation system/, which both array and point-buy do, as a matter of course.  The only question would be which of the two does it 'better' - and point-buy lets you buy the standard array, or quite a lot of alternatives, so it does so much better.Building to concept isn't about picking a number out of thin air and hanging everything on it, though.  It's all relative. Relative to what's possible in the game, with the method you're using, at the level you're playing - and relative to what everyone else at the table is playing.  Random generations make it possible, however unlikely, to play the character you want within it's (very broad) range of possibilities.  You just have to roll de-facto array that fits your concept when arranged to best advantage, and everyone else has to roll de-facto arrays and arrange them in such a way that they do not overshadow or undercut that concept in any way.  If you have a very simple concept like wanting to play a strong character, then putting the 15 from array or investing the max in point buy in STR does that for you.  No one's going to have a 20 and make you look weak.  Two of you can both play 'strong' characters if you want, you're just comparable in strength (for your respective races, anyway).  That's everyone getting to play the /concept/ they want.  Array is limited to fairly simple good-at-two, bad-at-one, concepts, but at least it's consistent & balanced, as well as fair. 1st level falls pretty far short of a lot of heroic concepts, by definition.  If the DM wants the party playing more awesome PCs from the start, he'll start at higher level and/or give a more generous array or more points to buy with or let you roll even more dice for each stat.   Having a concept and getting hung up on exact numbers are two very different things.  Up-thread, all sides (there's clearly more than two!) were hurling & vehemently denying the accusation of getting hung-up on numbers, while, well, getting hung up on numbers, as you're doing, right now. Every concept that's possible in the game and appropriate for the campaign, that (hopefully) won't undermine the next guy's concept.  Well, every concept that fits in the range of generation, that the DM doesn't reject as inappropriate for his campaign, and that isn't obviated, overshadowed or undercut by someone else's die rolls.  But, that's 'has a random chance of playing any possible concept,' which is very, very different from 'can play the concept you want.'</blockquote>

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