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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7229661" data-attributes="member: 996">That's getting hung up on the numbers again.  I'm happy to conceded the point, if you want to admit to being hung up on the numbers, but given how violently you contested the idea - and how gleefully you accused Ootfa, I think it was, of the same - I suspect you're not willing to go there.So, if you want to pretend you're not just hung up on the numbers, it remains all relative.  If the generation method you're using has a lower bound of 8, that's the worst.  You want to be bad at something, you go there.  If you're using array, you can't be that bad at two things.  If you're using point buy, you can't be that bad at more than 3 things.  There's a certain balance imposed on you either way.   If requirements are that specific, then random fails even more often, since it can't be depended upon to deliver anything specific.  It's funny how you're hung up on the numbers when hypothetically using array or point-buy, but delighted to play whatever you roll when random generation is being evaluated.  I'd point out how biased that is but (1) it's obvious and (2) 'bias' doesn't really do it justice.   You actually never have options, you play what you roll.  They're not options.  The degree of freedom to design/play the character he wants with random-and-arrange is identical to that of standard array.   Nod.  But it's quite meaningless when it comes to 'playing what you want.'  It doesn't matter what you might have rolled, only what you did roll.  You want to play a character with a number of modest stats and roll 3 high and three low, too bad.  You want to play a character with an extreme range between his highest and lowest stats and every roll comes out between 14 and 10, too bad. D&D has pretty well failed a lot of olympians, already.  In most editions, even very high level characters all-in on the appropriate skills couldn't touch a lot of olympic records, or even qualify...But D&D, in general, and especially 5e BA, doesn't do well for modeling the very specific, specialized, intense training involved, since it's not remotely meant for that.  But for, y'know, adventuring heroes (or heroic adventurers) in a fantasy story. Because life isn't fair, but games need to be, yes. Meh.  5e is presented as a starting point.  You can go where you want with it.  You want higher-stat PCs in your campaign, you can use an array with higher stats, higher-value point buy, or 5d6 drop the two lowest.  Doesn't change the basic characteristics and advantages of each method. Realism is what it is.  I really can't say enough bad things about trying to force realism onto a fantasy game, but I do readily acknowledge that random generation - in order - certainly adds at least a veneer of realism, the more so the more other characteristics outside of the PC's control (race, sex, social class, birth order, etc) are also kept random.</blockquote>

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