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Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7235651" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>There's certainly been a lot of that, and you've strayed into it, yourself, above.</p><p></p><p>There's a sense of realism to be had in random generation - it's undermined by arranging stats, choosing race, &c, but it's available for those who really want to go there, that's quite true. And it's certainly not in the nature of the game that all /creatures/ are equal in any sense, PCs, for instance, are a cut above the assumed PC-race populations, and, may well not be as gifted as the occasional legendary uber-villain who takes them all on by himself. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p>But, is it really wildly unrealistic that a party of adventurers, having gone through whatever winnowing process gets you to first level, and deciding to band together band become peers in whatever quest they first undertake, have similar degree's of talent as well as competence in their respective fields? I don't think so. But that's a fairly subtle point about 'realism,' which is not something I much value.</p><p></p><p>What I do value, though, is being able to do a build-to-concept, and that's where you really cross the line. No, the vast majority of valid concepts do not require overall stat disparities among the PCs. Individual stat differences should be able to cover it. The concept that just calls for extraordinary strength can have extraordinary strength, by maxxing out that stat, the concept that calls for strength, and intelligence, and charisma will not match that same level of strength - in that way, both concepts are realized. </p><p>You dismiss that as 'balance preference,' but balance is critical to letting <em>everyone</em> play what they want. </p><p></p><p>(<em>Edit: And, while I realize the title of the thread is random vs buy, I think array also deserves consideration, and it's Standard Array, not point-buy, that delivers best on the balance priority - though the fact that the stats, themselves, simply aren't balanced is an issue</em>). </p><p></p><p>You're also implying that random generation will better deliver on 'play what you want' because it sometimes delivers huge disparities among PCs. But, it does so randomly. If what you want it to play the low-stat underdog, and you roll huge, you're not playing what you want. If what you want is to play the ubermench, and your dice go cold, you can't play what you want. </p><p>Ultimately, random-roll-and-arrange is exactly as open to playing what you want as standard array, because both allow you the same degree of freedom in customizing your character: arranging stats. That's it. </p><p></p><p>Tautologically, of course, the advantage of random generation is that it's random. So you can explore the RP potential of parties with big power disparities among them without any actual unfairness - everyone had the same chance to roll the ubermench. And, what I have to consider the biggest advantage, especially if you roll in order: the potential to inspire a character idea when you don't have a concept in mind, already - something point buy & array just can't do.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Just as a sort of summary, how each method has it's high and low points:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Balance (parity among PCs)</p><p>Array</p><p>Point-buy</p><p>Random</p><p></p><p>Build-to-concept/Optimization ("play what you want," /when/ you want)</p><p>Point-buy</p><p>Array</p><p>Random</p><p></p><p>'Realism'/Inspiration/immersions (degree of variation among characters)</p><p>Random (especially Roll-in-order, then randomly roll race, gender, social class, birth order, etc rather than roll-and-arrange)</p><p>Point-buy</p><p>Array</p><p></p><p>Fairness:</p><p>Random/Point-Buy/Array - they're all perfectly fair.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7235651, member: 996"] There's certainly been a lot of that, and you've strayed into it, yourself, above. There's a sense of realism to be had in random generation - it's undermined by arranging stats, choosing race, &c, but it's available for those who really want to go there, that's quite true. And it's certainly not in the nature of the game that all /creatures/ are equal in any sense, PCs, for instance, are a cut above the assumed PC-race populations, and, may well not be as gifted as the occasional legendary uber-villain who takes them all on by himself. ;) But, is it really wildly unrealistic that a party of adventurers, having gone through whatever winnowing process gets you to first level, and deciding to band together band become peers in whatever quest they first undertake, have similar degree's of talent as well as competence in their respective fields? I don't think so. But that's a fairly subtle point about 'realism,' which is not something I much value. What I do value, though, is being able to do a build-to-concept, and that's where you really cross the line. No, the vast majority of valid concepts do not require overall stat disparities among the PCs. Individual stat differences should be able to cover it. The concept that just calls for extraordinary strength can have extraordinary strength, by maxxing out that stat, the concept that calls for strength, and intelligence, and charisma will not match that same level of strength - in that way, both concepts are realized. You dismiss that as 'balance preference,' but balance is critical to letting [i]everyone[/i] play what they want. ([i]Edit: And, while I realize the title of the thread is random vs buy, I think array also deserves consideration, and it's Standard Array, not point-buy, that delivers best on the balance priority - though the fact that the stats, themselves, simply aren't balanced is an issue[/i]). You're also implying that random generation will better deliver on 'play what you want' because it sometimes delivers huge disparities among PCs. But, it does so randomly. If what you want it to play the low-stat underdog, and you roll huge, you're not playing what you want. If what you want is to play the ubermench, and your dice go cold, you can't play what you want. Ultimately, random-roll-and-arrange is exactly as open to playing what you want as standard array, because both allow you the same degree of freedom in customizing your character: arranging stats. That's it. Tautologically, of course, the advantage of random generation is that it's random. So you can explore the RP potential of parties with big power disparities among them without any actual unfairness - everyone had the same chance to roll the ubermench. And, what I have to consider the biggest advantage, especially if you roll in order: the potential to inspire a character idea when you don't have a concept in mind, already - something point buy & array just can't do. Just as a sort of summary, how each method has it's high and low points: Balance (parity among PCs) Array Point-buy Random Build-to-concept/Optimization ("play what you want," /when/ you want) Point-buy Array Random 'Realism'/Inspiration/immersions (degree of variation among characters) Random (especially Roll-in-order, then randomly roll race, gender, social class, birth order, etc rather than roll-and-arrange) Point-buy Array Fairness: Random/Point-Buy/Array - they're all perfectly fair. [/QUOTE]
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