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Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7261973" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>True.</p><p></p><p>Variability.</p><p></p><p>People in the real world are not "balanced" anywhere near as evenly as we would be if we were all using the same stat array. The range between best and worst simply isn't big enough, and we don't all perfectly trade off at being just as good at one thing and just as bad at another.</p><p></p><p>Ditto for if we were all built by point-buy - there'd be a bit more variability but nowhere near enough range. Take intelligence by itself: people exist with IQs of 30, and of 180 or more, across a bell curve that peaks somewhere in the 110 range I think. Now there's no denying that this real-world bell curve is a bit tighter than rolling 3d6 produces, but there's also no denying its existence and there's also no denying that the 3d6 model is a reasonably elegant, if imperfect, attempt to model it.</p><p></p><p>The game tries to model that same bell curve across six stats instead of just one; in all cases the resulting bell curve is too loose, but in all cases the model sort of works as intended.</p><p></p><p>Now, in reply to [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] and [MENTION=284]Caliban[/MENTION] and others who say the general populace doesn't have stats at all:</p><p></p><p>Somewhere deep in the Canadian wilderness is a tree, one among millions. No living person has seen this tree except maybe from the air as part of a huge sprawling forest, and no specific records have ever been made of it. Does it still have a height? A girth? An age? A species? Of course it does! Even though we don't know the specifics, all those things exist and should anyone ever bother to go and measure them actual results would be forthcoming.</p><p></p><p>The same holds true of unseen elements in any kind of game world that exists beyond the PCs sight - and even what exists within the PCs sight. As the party enter Neverwinter the streets are teeming with people, and the DM maybe even mentions this. Does each person in that crowd have stats independent of each other person? A height, weight, and age? Of course they do! Even though we don't know the specifics, all those things exist - just like the tree in the forest - and should anyone ever bother to determine them actual results would be forthcoming. But how to determine them, is the problem.</p><p></p><p>With trees, we can look at a whole bunch of individual trees of a given species and from there pretty well model the rest - we know the averages and expected variances, we mostly know the extremes, and we can even take external factors into account e.g. climate to determine what might be expected in a given place. With people in a game world the game gives us the extremes (3 and 18 for Humans, normally), it gives us the averages (10.5), but it doesn't give us the expected variances nor any means of determining them, nor - with the exception of 1e's 3d6 - does it give us an expected "tightness" of the bell curve.</p><p></p><p>And while I agree with those who say that none of this is needed until it's needed, I disagree with the idea that none of it exists until it's needed. It all exists. We just haven't measured it; where in this particular case measuring it means rolling it up.</p><p></p><p>Put another way, if for whatever reason I determine that the third guard on the left has a 15 strength I've also just determined that said guard <em>has always had a 15 strength</em> - I just didn't happen to know about it.</p><p></p><p>Lan-"can't see the trees for the forest"-efan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7261973, member: 29398"] True. Variability. People in the real world are not "balanced" anywhere near as evenly as we would be if we were all using the same stat array. The range between best and worst simply isn't big enough, and we don't all perfectly trade off at being just as good at one thing and just as bad at another. Ditto for if we were all built by point-buy - there'd be a bit more variability but nowhere near enough range. Take intelligence by itself: people exist with IQs of 30, and of 180 or more, across a bell curve that peaks somewhere in the 110 range I think. Now there's no denying that this real-world bell curve is a bit tighter than rolling 3d6 produces, but there's also no denying its existence and there's also no denying that the 3d6 model is a reasonably elegant, if imperfect, attempt to model it. The game tries to model that same bell curve across six stats instead of just one; in all cases the resulting bell curve is too loose, but in all cases the model sort of works as intended. Now, in reply to [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] and [MENTION=284]Caliban[/MENTION] and others who say the general populace doesn't have stats at all: Somewhere deep in the Canadian wilderness is a tree, one among millions. No living person has seen this tree except maybe from the air as part of a huge sprawling forest, and no specific records have ever been made of it. Does it still have a height? A girth? An age? A species? Of course it does! Even though we don't know the specifics, all those things exist and should anyone ever bother to go and measure them actual results would be forthcoming. The same holds true of unseen elements in any kind of game world that exists beyond the PCs sight - and even what exists within the PCs sight. As the party enter Neverwinter the streets are teeming with people, and the DM maybe even mentions this. Does each person in that crowd have stats independent of each other person? A height, weight, and age? Of course they do! Even though we don't know the specifics, all those things exist - just like the tree in the forest - and should anyone ever bother to determine them actual results would be forthcoming. But how to determine them, is the problem. With trees, we can look at a whole bunch of individual trees of a given species and from there pretty well model the rest - we know the averages and expected variances, we mostly know the extremes, and we can even take external factors into account e.g. climate to determine what might be expected in a given place. With people in a game world the game gives us the extremes (3 and 18 for Humans, normally), it gives us the averages (10.5), but it doesn't give us the expected variances nor any means of determining them, nor - with the exception of 1e's 3d6 - does it give us an expected "tightness" of the bell curve. And while I agree with those who say that none of this is needed until it's needed, I disagree with the idea that none of it exists until it's needed. It all exists. We just haven't measured it; where in this particular case measuring it means rolling it up. Put another way, if for whatever reason I determine that the third guard on the left has a 15 strength I've also just determined that said guard [I]has always had a 15 strength[/I] - I just didn't happen to know about it. Lan-"can't see the trees for the forest"-efan [/QUOTE]
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