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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7262691" data-attributes="member: 996">Hail Eris! Variations on any of the three methods can deliver whatever range of scores the DM desires.  3-18 may very well /not/ be desirable for a given campaign, so random can be adjusted to weight heavily in one direction (4d6k3), use entirely different dice (3d4+6), or set floors or ceilings requiring a re-roll.  Similarly, a standard Array can consist of any 6 scores the DM desires.  Similarly, point-buy can have any upper or lower limits set and any variations on cost to get there.    The variation random generation offers is not variation in the range of values one character can have in one score, or in the universe of all theoretically possible characters (which is irrelevant), but in the variation in the total value of the arrays assigned to each player at a given table - in other words, one player can have a flat-out much better or worse set of stats to arrange than the next.   RAW is a 3e-community bugaboo.  The two systems offered in the 5e PH are just starting points.I don't really feel there's important distinctions to be drawn among 'realism,' 'simulationism,' 'associated mechanics,' 'internal consistency,' and/or 'immersion' ...and/or whatever...  They're all split from the same hair. Thus all the methods in the 1e DMG, including the 4d6 5e went with, sure.  Agreed.  Yet, some sense of consistency, which also ties back to the desire for realism (and the various code-words for realism), can come from relating the distribution or generation of NPC stats to that of PCs.  I suppose it makes no difference whether that's the obvious symmetry of using straight 3d6 (or 3 'average' dice - 3d6(a)? for NPCs, simply taking away the 4th die used for PCs before rolling it instead of after, or the symmetry of having PC, 'ellite,' and 'ordinary' Arrays, or different point values for PCs/'Important' NPCs/elites/commoners.  It's all a matter of degree.  Random-and-arrange is a compromise between the realism of not getting to choose your talents (the 'association'/immersion split-ends of the realism hair) and the desirability of playing a character you want.  It's an arbitrary compromise, and isn't rooted in degrees of realism (it's clearly /more/ associative to choose your stats - you can choose to study more or work out more, for instance - than to choose the circumstances of your birth).  And, as Max & I have already volunteered, back in the day we did each, independently (and I doubt we were alone) randomly generate all sorts of beyond-the-character's-input background details like that, so, hey, at least we've been consistent, that way.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  It's not all self-contradiction and hypocrisy on the preference-for-random side.In one sense they can be, because what your scores represent about your character is relative.  If you buy a 15 STR and choose a +2 STR race, you're going to either be the strongest PC in the party, or tied for that honor.   If you /roll/ a 15 STR and choose the same race, though you have exact same 17 STR, you may or may not be 'the strongest' - everyone else might roll 12 or less in STR, or one or more others might roll 18s - your 'strongest' concept could end up the 'weakest' in a party of 18-20 STR characters. While I still believe this is true, the arc of this long thread has convinced me that it's probably to a trivial degree. I guess, here, you're using 'power gaming' to mean 'wanting to play a strictly superior character to the next guy.'  I disapprove of that use of the term, preferring to think of a power-gamer like a power-user, someone with great familiarity with a system who can get more utility out of it, to the benefit of all involved.  But, using the crass, desire-for-superiority sense, I have to disagree.  It's not a guarantee, but the possibility of playing a strictly superior character (even before applying system mastery) that makes random desirable to such a player.  The guarantee comes with array & point-buy, and it's the guarantee that /no one/ at the table will have a strictly superior or inferior character, based on stats, alone.  If you feel you can only enjoy the game if you play a strictly-superior character, then you simply won't get to enjoy the game, with point-buy or array, /ever/ - but, with random generation, you have a chance of getting what you want, some of the time, you just have to accept that others may get it, instead.   It's really just a campaign-long variation on the practice of spot-light balance that 5e already uses to spread the fun around to players who chose different classes, and a legitimate strength of random generation.</blockquote>

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