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Message: <blockquote data-quote="two" data-source="post: 2135639" data-attributes="member: 9002">I have no idea what you are talking about, honestly.  I don't undersatnd this line of logic at all.  I'm baffled." Consider a hypothetical race with +1 Str, -1 Int and -1 Cha.  If a player rolls three 13s, they can put these in Str, Int, and Cha.  They then recieve a Str modifier that is +1 higher without any penalty to the other two stats.  Using odd modifiers to races does nothing but encourage min/maxing.  "Consider the same race when applied to three 12's. In this case, there is a significant difference.  Or how about 13 str, 12 int, 12 charisma.  Even greater change.What is the big deal? When you have a race with +1 to strength, the race is just a little less strong than (say) a half-orc.  Sometimes it increases the bonus of a stat by 1 (13 to 14) and sometimes it doesn't.  What is the big deal?  Why this obsession with a necessary change in the BONUS?"If you do, you make it so that players using rolling methods can nullify the penalties of the race and still reap the benefits."If you end up with 3 13's and apply +1/-1/-1 to them, then you have "hidden" the penalties and reap the benefit.  True.  So what?  The race is still bit stronger and dumber and less wise than a human.  The stats reflects that.  13 int > 12 int after all.  The bonus is the same.  Big deal.  Are you telling me that players will mechanically hide the penalties if possible?  Kinda like playing a wizard Dwarf (gee, you "hid" the -2 to charisma penalty)?  Yeah, they will part of the time.  So what?  Sometimes they can, sometimes they can't.As it is, everyone and his uncle has even stats, "hiding" the useless odd stats by not buying them (in point buy) or dumping odds into the dump stats. Talk about boring mechanical min/maxxing."A similar problem exists with magic items with odd bonuses; their value varies greatly according to the character using them.  A magic item that grants a +3 to a stat will have to cost more than a +2 item, but will have the same practical value to half of the characters using it.  Since wealth is (idealy) standardized across different characters at different levels, this creates a balance problem."This is absurd.  You mean that the value of a  "Belt of Dwarvenkind" varies according greatly to the charcter using them? It's better for an elf than a dwarf? Eeek!  You mean +5 Full Plate is more useful to a fighter than a wizard?  Eeek!  Run!  There is no balance problem with a +3 item of strength.  The character with a strength = 13 benifits more than the character with the strength=12.  The character with strenth=13 benefits more because -- get this -- he or she is STRONGER.  13>12.  What is the problem here?The wizard moving from int 22 to 24 into benefits more than the wizard moving from int 12 to 14.  More powerful bonus spells, etc.  And that's fine.  Increases to higher stats give better results.  13 + 3 = 16.  Cool.  12 + 3  = 15.  Great.  Too bad you were not as strong as the 13 strength guy.Obviously -- and do mean obviously -- if stat bonus enhancements could be bought "on the odd", for example gloves of dex +3, the value of an odd stat increases, and becomes useful again.  This would be a good thing, not the end of the world as you seemingly think.I think it would be great if you could buy a Strength=15 and imagine that in a few levels you might be able to afford a +3 to stength item. That's cool.  That gives odd values a strong reason to exist.Or, as is done currently, the Strength is put at 16 immediately or dumped down to 14.  (99% of the time, barring obscure circumstance)A modified system makes 14, 15, and 16 all good options.The status quo doesn't.It's silly.  Ditto "no odd racial increases to stats".</blockquote>

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