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<blockquote data-quote="MortalPlague" data-source="post: 6156419" data-attributes="member: 62721">One of the odd side effects of 4th Edition's save system is that after a certain point (usually the start of paragon), 'end of next turn' effects become more powerful than 'save ends' effects.&nbsp; There are many ways for PCs and monsters to generate saving throws, but there is no way for fixed-duration effects to end early.For my epic game, I changed everything to 'save ends' and it worked fairly well.&nbsp; On top of that, I kept the 'end of next turn' condition for effects on PCs, with the 'save ends' addition (so they could attempt to save if they were granted one, but even if they failed their save, the effect still obeyed the rules of 'end of next turn').&nbsp; It seemed to work well, but in the end my players preferred the original way.&nbsp; We switched back, keeping the 'save ends' thing for bosses only, and it didn't make much difference either way.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MortalPlague, post: 6156419, member: 62721"] One of the odd side effects of 4th Edition's save system is that after a certain point (usually the start of paragon), 'end of next turn' effects become more powerful than 'save ends' effects. There are many ways for PCs and monsters to generate saving throws, but there is no way for fixed-duration effects to end early. For my epic game, I changed everything to 'save ends' and it worked fairly well. On top of that, I kept the 'end of next turn' condition for effects on PCs, with the 'save ends' addition (so they could attempt to save if they were granted one, but even if they failed their save, the effect still obeyed the rules of 'end of next turn'). It seemed to work well, but in the end my players preferred the original way. We switched back, keeping the 'save ends' thing for bosses only, and it didn't make much difference either way. [/QUOTE]

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