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<blockquote data-quote="Bendris Noulg" data-source="post: 1423358" data-attributes="member: 6398">You seem to be mis-reading me.&nbsp; Consider how many times it's been said that a Cleric 10/Wizard 10 is underpowered compared to a Cleric 20 or Wizard 20.&nbsp; In a low magic campaign, however, Cleric 10/Wizard 10 is far more viable.&nbsp; And that's just one of many options that become more playable.&nbsp;A player that can't (or won't) adapt to a different environment isn't a GM or system problem.&nbsp;Okay, which do you want: The cookie or the Bozo button?&nbsp;As I said, no one is indicating that creativity and non-combat solutions are exclusive to low-magic games.&nbsp; Constantly returning to that point is getting annoying because it's false and distracts from the actual conversation.&nbsp;Or, put it this way: The game is designed to be balanced.&nbsp; The DMG flat-out indicates that balance is &quot;most important&quot; for Kick-In-The-Door style play (DMG, p8).&nbsp; What folks like myself are saying is that Kick-In-The-Door style play is less viable in a LM/GnG style game because the consequences of KitD (high death rate, 20% drain of resources, etc.) aren't as easily cured, recovered from, or even applicable.&nbsp; In a high magic game, one with the rules are used as-written, KitD is viable unless the GM specifically designs encounters to discourage it (as you have); In a low magic game, KitD is akin to suicide just as a matter of fact.&nbsp;So, please, stop indicating that people are saying what they aren't; It's a short step from there to trolldome.&nbsp;Ehr...&nbsp; Who said this?&nbsp; I think you're starting to read more in my posts than I'm actually writing.&nbsp;Let's look at the example I gave earlier (me player in low magic game)...&nbsp; The individual in this instance rarely had more than two ideas when facing a challenge (charge and run away).&nbsp; While the other four players and myself were discussing the situation, and devising a multitude of possible actions, all this person had to contribute was, &quot;well, if we had [Item A] we could [Action B]&quot; or &quot;if [the GM] let me have the [Item C] I asked for we could [Action D]&quot;.&nbsp;This is not a GM or system problem; It's a player that has absolutely no idea how to play when not given a bunch of magic items and spells to fill the void in his creativity.&nbsp; Blaming that on the GM or the system, or to refer to it as &quot;forcing&quot; anything, is ignoring the actual problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bendris Noulg, post: 1423358, member: 6398"] You seem to be mis-reading me. Consider how many times it's been said that a Cleric 10/Wizard 10 is underpowered compared to a Cleric 20 or Wizard 20. In a low magic campaign, however, Cleric 10/Wizard 10 is far more viable. And that's just one of [i]many[/i] options that become more playable. A player that can't (or won't) adapt to a different environment isn't a GM or system problem. Okay, which do you want: The cookie or the Bozo button? As I said, [i]no one is indicating that creativity and non-combat solutions are exclusive to low-magic games. [/i]Constantly returning to that point is getting annoying because it's false and distracts from the actual conversation. Or, put it this way: The game is designed to be [i]balanced[/i]. The DMG flat-out indicates that balance is "most important" for Kick-In-The-Door style play (DMG, p8). What folks like myself are saying is that Kick-In-The-Door style play is [i]less viable[/i] in a LM/GnG style game because the consequences of KitD (high death rate, 20% drain of resources, etc.) aren't as easily cured, recovered from, or even applicable. In a high magic game, one with the rules are used as-written, KitD is viable unless the GM specifically designs encounters to discourage it (as you have); In a low magic game, KitD is akin to suicide just as a matter of fact. So, please, stop indicating that people are saying what they aren't; It's a short step from there to trolldome. Ehr... Who said this? I think you're starting to read more in my posts than I'm actually writing. Let's look at the example I gave earlier (me player in low magic game)... The individual in this instance rarely had more than two ideas when facing a challenge (charge and run away). While the other four players and myself were discussing the situation, and devising a [i]multitude[/i] of possible actions, all this person had to contribute was, "well, if we had [Item A] we could [Action B]" or "if [the GM] let me have the [Item C] I asked for we could [Action D]". This is [i]not[/i] a GM or system problem; It's a player that has absolutely no idea how to play when not given a bunch of magic items and spells to fill the void in his creativity. Blaming that on the GM or the system, or to refer to it as "forcing" anything, is ignoring the actual problem. [/QUOTE]

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