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<blockquote data-quote="kamosa" data-source="post: 1423687" data-attributes="member: 1037">I guess if you take out high level magic, I view that there isn't any real play difference between higher levels and lower levels.&nbsp; Yes you get more hitpoints and more skill points, but the actuall play difference it minor.&nbsp;&nbsp; Monsters have more hitpoints, but the fighters do more damage.&nbsp; So, the combats still last about the same number of rounds.&nbsp; You get more skill points, but the DC's also go up such that most checks are still around the same chance of sucess.&nbsp; We all agree that monsters have levels to them.&nbsp;&nbsp; We understand that CR 9 monster is tougher then a CR 3 monster.&nbsp; So, we think of it as progress when our characters can take on these higher level CR's.&nbsp;&nbsp; We all understand when a skill goes up in level.&nbsp; The DC of that lock is 15 the DC of this lock is 35.&nbsp;&nbsp; Where you run into the difference in oppinion is in the other types of challenges that players face.&nbsp; We don't have a system for ranking crossing a river or gathering information about a crime through divination.&nbsp;&nbsp; So, for arguement, lets make one up.So, suppose we had a ranking system for these types of situations.&nbsp; Crossing a wide river&nbsp; is a MR 1(Magic Rating) level encounter.&nbsp; At first level we come to the river, we have no magical abilities that get us across, so we must seek a boat.&nbsp; The GM can then roll play bargaining for the boat, constructing a boat, looking for a big log, trying to swim.&nbsp; (I know there are other ways, but lets keep it simple for the example).&nbsp; They love this stuff, hey I love this stuff.Later on we come to this same river, this time we are 7th level.&nbsp; The priest casts water walk, the mage casts fly and bang we are across the river.&nbsp; Not to mention the dreaded teleport that is just around the casting corner. Many GM's are pissed, they wanted that same roleplaying challenge that this was at 1st level.&nbsp; The problem is that the MR level of the party is now 7 or 8 and the challenge was still a 1.&nbsp; So the mage's abilities are attacked by the DM in an attempt to force their skills back to that 1st level MR.&nbsp;We don't really have a system for scaling these types of encounters and many GM's don't want to scale these encounters.&nbsp; So, they cripple the ability of the casters to advance in MR levels.&nbsp;&nbsp; That is why I say that those GM's want to still play at low levels, but won't admit it.&nbsp; They want to scale the other two types of play, use of skills and the CR of the monsters, but they don't want to deal with the increase of the parties ability to challenge MR.I know we just made the name up on the spot, but I think the concept of an MR is valid, whether it uses that name or not.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="kamosa, post: 1423687, member: 1037"] I guess if you take out high level magic, I view that there isn't any real play difference between higher levels and lower levels. Yes you get more hitpoints and more skill points, but the actuall play difference it minor. Monsters have more hitpoints, but the fighters do more damage. So, the combats still last about the same number of rounds. You get more skill points, but the DC's also go up such that most checks are still around the same chance of sucess. We all agree that monsters have levels to them. We understand that CR 9 monster is tougher then a CR 3 monster. So, we think of it as progress when our characters can take on these higher level CR's. We all understand when a skill goes up in level. The DC of that lock is 15 the DC of this lock is 35. Where you run into the difference in oppinion is in the other types of challenges that players face. We don't have a system for ranking crossing a river or gathering information about a crime through divination. So, for arguement, lets make one up. So, suppose we had a ranking system for these types of situations. Crossing a wide river is a MR 1(Magic Rating) level encounter. At first level we come to the river, we have no magical abilities that get us across, so we must seek a boat. The GM can then roll play bargaining for the boat, constructing a boat, looking for a big log, trying to swim. (I know there are other ways, but lets keep it simple for the example). They love this stuff, hey I love this stuff. Later on we come to this same river, this time we are 7th level. The priest casts water walk, the mage casts fly and bang we are across the river. Not to mention the dreaded teleport that is just around the casting corner. Many GM's are pissed, they wanted that same roleplaying challenge that this was at 1st level. The problem is that the MR level of the party is now 7 or 8 and the challenge was still a 1. So the mage's abilities are attacked by the DM in an attempt to force their skills back to that 1st level MR. We don't really have a system for scaling these types of encounters and many GM's don't want to scale these encounters. So, they cripple the ability of the casters to advance in MR levels. That is why I say that those GM's want to still play at low levels, but won't admit it. They want to scale the other two types of play, use of skills and the CR of the monsters, but they don't want to deal with the increase of the parties ability to challenge MR. I know we just made the name up on the spot, but I think the concept of an MR is valid, whether it uses that name or not. [/QUOTE]

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