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Poll: As a player, I am always justified in pursuing every advantage I find, no matter what.
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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8719098" data-attributes="member: 6877472"><p>This is really one of those things that it either bothers you or it doesn't. Many, many words have been typed to "prove" casters have an unfair advantage. I've typed a few million myself over the years. But for many, it never materializes. Either their players don't cotton to the caster playstyle, or they don't tend to migrate to the spells that alter the game, or maybe the game just doesn't go on long enough. Maybe there are house rules in effect to alter the balance, or even just assumptions and unwritten rules. Or even "Gentlemen's agreements".</p><p></p><p>I have a story about this (no shock there, if you've seen other posts of mine) on this topic. I have a few friends I used to play AD&D with. For their own reasons, they never really felt the need to embrace newer editions of the game (or deride them outright with...let's say, unusual interpretations of how the game has changed), but when I got to see them, I'm happy to play with them.</p><p></p><p>Even if I have to bite my tongue at some of their "interpretations" of the rules, lol.</p><p></p><p>But about seven years ago, I witnessed something remarkable. The DM is one of my oldest friends, and he learned all the wrong lessons from AD&D- he's stingy, believes the DM is the player's opponent, and is well known for some ludicrous rulings (like deciding the target area for magic missiles means the spell does AoE damage, largely preventing anyone from ever being able to use it without harming other party members- no amount of argument can get him to budge on this position, not even Sage Advice!).</p><p></p><p>Since he prides himself on grueling campaigns with underequipped parties facing against "impossible" odds, it's rare that any of his groups ever reach decent level. But on this occasion, we were all in the 9th-ish level range. His uncle, who is usually a "forever DM", as he has the most well-developed setting, was actually playing a Druid. With 5th level spells.</p><p></p><p>This is unusual, since my friends seem to think <em>fireball</em> is the pinnacle of magic, and anything else is "cute tricks", lol.</p><p></p><p>We were running a modified <strong>Axe of the Dwarvish Lords </strong>when the DM decided it was time to have us face a "horde of goblins". All our attempts to get real numbers out of the DM failed- there were goblins mounted on dire wolves, and goblins with bows. Our Druid decided this was an excellent time to bust out <em>Spike Stones</em>. We had pressured the DM into drawing a crude map so we could see where everything was on the battlefield.</p><p></p><p>After describing the effects of the spell, the DM started to get very frustrated. He then stopped the game to read the spell. Everyone else also read the spell. I knew what the spell did, and so did the Druid.</p><p></p><p>Cries of disbelief and incredulity were heard as the spell completely shut down the the goblin cavalry, the damage piling up quickly. A lot of hand waving ensued do to the sentence "The success of each attack is determined as if the caster were actually engaging in combat", as said Druid had a <em>girdle of stone giant strength</em>. The DM ruled he couldn't apply his bonuses (not even from my <em>bless </em>spell). Still many foes were stabbed by pointy, hard to see rocks.</p><p></p><p>Surveying the chaos, the DM made the only logical ruling he could...ha, no, more like, after much griping about how this spell "destroys melee", he decided it can't possibly work the way the text reads, and started making ruling after ruling, nerfing the spell to the point it wasn't worth the spell slot.</p><p></p><p>The Druid player started getting pretty irate, and then one player quipped: "dude, come on, everyone knows Fighters are better than casters, it's obvious this spell can't work this way."</p><p></p><p>Giving the Druid player a ride home, I listened to his ranting. I mean, I agreed with him, but it just boggled my mind that people who have been playing the game longer than I have, have never actually seen how one spell can make an entire encounter implode.</p><p></p><p>Or the great narrative power of a spellcaster outside of combat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 8719098, member: 6877472"] This is really one of those things that it either bothers you or it doesn't. Many, many words have been typed to "prove" casters have an unfair advantage. I've typed a few million myself over the years. But for many, it never materializes. Either their players don't cotton to the caster playstyle, or they don't tend to migrate to the spells that alter the game, or maybe the game just doesn't go on long enough. Maybe there are house rules in effect to alter the balance, or even just assumptions and unwritten rules. Or even "Gentlemen's agreements". I have a story about this (no shock there, if you've seen other posts of mine) on this topic. I have a few friends I used to play AD&D with. For their own reasons, they never really felt the need to embrace newer editions of the game (or deride them outright with...let's say, unusual interpretations of how the game has changed), but when I got to see them, I'm happy to play with them. Even if I have to bite my tongue at some of their "interpretations" of the rules, lol. But about seven years ago, I witnessed something remarkable. The DM is one of my oldest friends, and he learned all the wrong lessons from AD&D- he's stingy, believes the DM is the player's opponent, and is well known for some ludicrous rulings (like deciding the target area for magic missiles means the spell does AoE damage, largely preventing anyone from ever being able to use it without harming other party members- no amount of argument can get him to budge on this position, not even Sage Advice!). Since he prides himself on grueling campaigns with underequipped parties facing against "impossible" odds, it's rare that any of his groups ever reach decent level. But on this occasion, we were all in the 9th-ish level range. His uncle, who is usually a "forever DM", as he has the most well-developed setting, was actually playing a Druid. With 5th level spells. This is unusual, since my friends seem to think [I]fireball[/I] is the pinnacle of magic, and anything else is "cute tricks", lol. We were running a modified [B]Axe of the Dwarvish Lords [/B]when the DM decided it was time to have us face a "horde of goblins". All our attempts to get real numbers out of the DM failed- there were goblins mounted on dire wolves, and goblins with bows. Our Druid decided this was an excellent time to bust out [I]Spike Stones[/I]. We had pressured the DM into drawing a crude map so we could see where everything was on the battlefield. After describing the effects of the spell, the DM started to get very frustrated. He then stopped the game to read the spell. Everyone else also read the spell. I knew what the spell did, and so did the Druid. Cries of disbelief and incredulity were heard as the spell completely shut down the the goblin cavalry, the damage piling up quickly. A lot of hand waving ensued do to the sentence "The success of each attack is determined as if the caster were actually engaging in combat", as said Druid had a [I]girdle of stone giant strength[/I]. The DM ruled he couldn't apply his bonuses (not even from my [I]bless [/I]spell). Still many foes were stabbed by pointy, hard to see rocks. Surveying the chaos, the DM made the only logical ruling he could...ha, no, more like, after much griping about how this spell "destroys melee", he decided it can't possibly work the way the text reads, and started making ruling after ruling, nerfing the spell to the point it wasn't worth the spell slot. The Druid player started getting pretty irate, and then one player quipped: "dude, come on, everyone knows Fighters are better than casters, it's obvious this spell can't work this way." Giving the Druid player a ride home, I listened to his ranting. I mean, I agreed with him, but it just boggled my mind that people who have been playing the game longer than I have, have never actually seen how one spell can make an entire encounter implode. Or the great narrative power of a spellcaster outside of combat. [/QUOTE]
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