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<blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 3822662" data-attributes="member: 14506">The only place I would have a save or die effect is in the epic level range of effects. A martial vorpal effect, an arcane disintegrate ray, a divine slay living touch attack all are very thematic for high level play. However...One of my main beefs with the current high level game is the myriad of save or die effects and the endless loop of spending 50k to true rez somebody after they botch a save. Note that also at this level the monsters don't stand up for very long because the damage output of the characters far exceeds the hp of most monsters. So it leaves them that one shot to &quot;zap&quot; somebody- so they toss their save-or-die effect hoping that the PC will fail their save. And ever so often the PC's do fail and it goes into the loop of spend resources to raise them back. I would rather the effects be more interesting at high level than &quot;roll a die- with a binary effect of live or die&quot; I think the save or disable effects are more interesting and can be epic level. Flesh to Stone (1d6 dex damage every round until 0, then petrified),&nbsp; Feeblemind (1d6 int and cha damage every round until 1), Dominate (creature makes WILL save every round or is controlled), Trap the Soul (as is), Save or die effects (some there is no save):Slay living (should do con damage)Phantasmal Killer/Weird (should do wisdom damage or &quot;psychic&quot; damage)Undeath to Death (should do hp damage)Holy Word/Blasphemy/Dictum/Word of Chaos (should offer a save and have less effect)Destruction (same as disintegrate???)Symbol of Death (drops to 0 con???)Implosion (deals hp damage)Cloudkill (deals hp damage or moved up in level)Circle of Death (deals 1d6 con damage while in the circle???)Finger of Death (drops to 0 con)Power Word Kill (100 hp or less to kill)Wail of the Banshee (???)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sadrik, post: 3822662, member: 14506"] The only place I would have a save or die effect is in the epic level range of effects. A martial vorpal effect, an arcane disintegrate ray, a divine slay living touch attack all are very thematic for high level play. However... One of my main beefs with the current high level game is the myriad of save or die effects and the endless loop of spending 50k to true rez somebody after they botch a save. Note that also at this level the monsters don't stand up for very long because the damage output of the characters far exceeds the hp of most monsters. So it leaves them that one shot to "zap" somebody- so they toss their save-or-die effect hoping that the PC will fail their save. And ever so often the PC's do fail and it goes into the loop of spend resources to raise them back. I would rather the effects be more interesting at high level than "roll a die- with a binary effect of live or die" I think the save or disable effects are more interesting and can be epic level. Flesh to Stone (1d6 dex damage every round until 0, then petrified), Feeblemind (1d6 int and cha damage every round until 1), Dominate (creature makes WILL save every round or is controlled), Trap the Soul (as is), Save or die effects (some there is no save): Slay living (should do con damage) Phantasmal Killer/Weird (should do wisdom damage or "psychic" damage) Undeath to Death (should do hp damage) Holy Word/Blasphemy/Dictum/Word of Chaos (should offer a save and have less effect) Destruction (same as disintegrate???) Symbol of Death (drops to 0 con???) Implosion (deals hp damage) Cloudkill (deals hp damage or moved up in level) Circle of Death (deals 1d6 con damage while in the circle???) Finger of Death (drops to 0 con) Power Word Kill (100 hp or less to kill) Wail of the Banshee (???) [/QUOTE]

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