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Poll: Do you want Save-Or-Die in 4th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Mercule" data-source="post: 3825723" data-attributes="member: 5100"><p>One of the main problems with current "high level" play is that the definition and scale of most "high level" events has changed considerably, while the save-or-die and raising spells haven't.</p><p></p><p>I can't speak for anyone else, but the 1E campaigns I played in stayed mostly under "name level" (10th, for the young punks). Even <em>teleport</em> was at the upper end of ucheivement. Things like <em>disintegrate</em>, <em>finger of death</em>, and <em>raise dead</em> were practically "epic level" spells of the day.</p><p></p><p>2E seemed to shift the curve up a bit immediately, with a gradual increase as time went on. 3E was at once both a natural outgrowth of what I saw and a completely different beast.</p><p></p><p>The biggest thing I've noticed, over the years, is the power level of dragons. It's been a while, but it seems that 8th level characters could challenge some of the more potent dragons in 1E. In 3E, you practically have to use Epic rules to play in the same leagues. I haven't checked, but I'd bet a lot of other monsters (at least outsiders) have gone through a similar escalation.</p><p></p><p>So, in one regard, all they've done is use bigger numbers to represent the same challenges. But, the spell levels, and caster levels at which they come, haven't changed significantly. The net effect is that the save-or-die effects and resurrections come a whole lot earlier in a character's career these days -- at least in effect.</p><p></p><p>I have absolutely no problem with save-or-die and resurrections. So long as they are epic or near epic in scale. With 4E running all the way to 30th level, I would prefer to see those effects limited to levels above 20, most of the time. Prior to that, only a few legendary critters should have save-or-die and any chance of bringing a character back from the dead should involve a quest to go and get the soul.</p><p></p><p>Those are elements of the genre, though. So, I very much want to see them retained.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercule, post: 3825723, member: 5100"] One of the main problems with current "high level" play is that the definition and scale of most "high level" events has changed considerably, while the save-or-die and raising spells haven't. I can't speak for anyone else, but the 1E campaigns I played in stayed mostly under "name level" (10th, for the young punks). Even [i]teleport[/i] was at the upper end of ucheivement. Things like [i]disintegrate[/i], [i]finger of death[/i], and [i]raise dead[/i] were practically "epic level" spells of the day. 2E seemed to shift the curve up a bit immediately, with a gradual increase as time went on. 3E was at once both a natural outgrowth of what I saw and a completely different beast. The biggest thing I've noticed, over the years, is the power level of dragons. It's been a while, but it seems that 8th level characters could challenge some of the more potent dragons in 1E. In 3E, you practically have to use Epic rules to play in the same leagues. I haven't checked, but I'd bet a lot of other monsters (at least outsiders) have gone through a similar escalation. So, in one regard, all they've done is use bigger numbers to represent the same challenges. But, the spell levels, and caster levels at which they come, haven't changed significantly. The net effect is that the save-or-die effects and resurrections come a whole lot earlier in a character's career these days -- at least in effect. I have absolutely no problem with save-or-die and resurrections. So long as they are epic or near epic in scale. With 4E running all the way to 30th level, I would prefer to see those effects limited to levels above 20, most of the time. Prior to that, only a few legendary critters should have save-or-die and any chance of bringing a character back from the dead should involve a quest to go and get the soul. Those are elements of the genre, though. So, I very much want to see them retained. [/QUOTE]
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Poll: Do you want Save-Or-Die in 4th Edition
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