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<blockquote data-quote="mneme" data-source="post: 5684525" data-attributes="member: 59248">Oh, yes, absolutely.&nbsp; It's quite clear that players misinterpreting Chaos (and usually not Law -- Lawful Evil was actually an amazingly cool alignment; a good way to make uncomfortable allies and interesting villains, though players sometimes felt compelled to play asshat paladins) was Wizards' motivation for dropping the 2-axis system.&nbsp; I do understand this--but it was also an iconic system, contained some interesting philosophical insights, and easily -could- be used properly.Regarding paladins, I don't think &quot;the GM judges whether you're playing your alignment&quot; is a necessary mechanic for handling fallen paladins.&nbsp; For a much more satisfying way to handle such arcs, why not give all paladins a &quot;virtue&quot; feature and a &quot;vice&quot; feature.&nbsp; One feature is primary, and determines whether you're a paladin or a blackguard.&nbsp; But in times of dire need, you can use the other feature as well, getting excellent damage by pulling on your rage as a paladin (or whichever vice you chose), or even drawing on your inner compassion to protect or heal as a blackguard.&nbsp; However, every time you do this, you must roll a 6 sided die; if it rolls lower than the total number of times you've used this ability over your career (or something; I'd have it reset after it hit 7), you immediately lose many of your main powers and either flip immediately, or must make atonement or conversion to recover them.&nbsp; Put the player in control of how dark her character goes, and it's cool again. (and, of course, the GM could rule a game with the option to award virtue and vice &quot;points&quot; and the ability to judge player actions using this mechanic).Regarding no game other than D&amp;D being able to manage classic paladins...what about Pendragon?&nbsp; The &quot;virtue/vice&quot; mechanics in that game are -solid-.&nbsp; (And while &quot;paladins&quot; are a D&amp;D trope that is not part of the Matter of Britain, it's not at all hard to make a holy knight).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mneme, post: 5684525, member: 59248"] Oh, yes, absolutely. It's quite clear that players misinterpreting Chaos (and usually not Law -- Lawful Evil was actually an amazingly cool alignment; a good way to make uncomfortable allies and interesting villains, though players sometimes felt compelled to play asshat paladins) was Wizards' motivation for dropping the 2-axis system. I do understand this--but it was also an iconic system, contained some interesting philosophical insights, and easily -could- be used properly. Regarding paladins, I don't think "the GM judges whether you're playing your alignment" is a necessary mechanic for handling fallen paladins. For a much more satisfying way to handle such arcs, why not give all paladins a "virtue" feature and a "vice" feature. One feature is primary, and determines whether you're a paladin or a blackguard. But in times of dire need, you can use the other feature as well, getting excellent damage by pulling on your rage as a paladin (or whichever vice you chose), or even drawing on your inner compassion to protect or heal as a blackguard. However, every time you do this, you must roll a 6 sided die; if it rolls lower than the total number of times you've used this ability over your career (or something; I'd have it reset after it hit 7), you immediately lose many of your main powers and either flip immediately, or must make atonement or conversion to recover them. Put the player in control of how dark her character goes, and it's cool again. (and, of course, the GM could rule a game with the option to award virtue and vice "points" and the ability to judge player actions using this mechanic). Regarding no game other than D&D being able to manage classic paladins...what about Pendragon? The "virtue/vice" mechanics in that game are -solid-. (And while "paladins" are a D&D trope that is not part of the Matter of Britain, it's not at all hard to make a holy knight). [/QUOTE]

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