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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 3572668" data-attributes="member: 40961">First, you can't directly compare saves in this fashion, because a character with a good reflex save will have drastically different results if he focuses on dex, or ignores it.  Example: wizards and clerics both have good will saves.  But their actual saves are very different in strength due to wisdom scores.At low levels, characters should fail saves most of the time, even on good saves.  Also, the difference between a bad and good save shouldn't be very extreme.At high levels, a character with a good save who focuses on the stat linked to the save should almost never fail on that save.  Ie, dex based rogues should nearly never fail a reflex save.  A character with a good save who doesn't focus much on it should succeed more than half the time, maybe about 2/3 of the time.  A character with a bad save who has an ok bonus to the linked stat should succeed slightly less than half the time on it.  A character with a bad save who has no particular bonus to the linked stat should succeed around 2/5 of the time.And in the meantime, save-or-die effects should be lessened to save-or-be-removed-from-combat.</blockquote>