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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 8537744" data-attributes="member: 6704184">Level 20 Fighter should at least be the sort of person who smashes Olympic records. They should be raising the bar of what we know people can do. A level 20 strongman type Fighter should be on the level Thor Bjornson as minimum. Bjornson is just a guy.   But this also speaks to one of the problems with how many people view things like lift and carry values, speed, climbing, jumping, etc. When you consider them the ceiling, rather than “what you can do without special effort/exertion”, you severely limit characters, often putting them below the level of being competitive with high school athletes!   No one writes legends of a guy who can lift what a high school future strongman can lift. No sane person at that level of prowess thinks they can stand next to an Archdruid.</blockquote>