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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4824553" data-attributes="member: 2011">No, they should not hit on 5s or 6s. How exactly does +3 to hit transform a 16 or higher (on a same level foe, higher than that on higher level foes) into a 5 or 6?And, please tell us which other powers and feats give bonuses from allies for the entire encounter.This is the important thing. Sure, an ally might give a PC +2 or even more for a single attack or a single round.But where are these synergies of powers that allow for the math delta of 4 (the delta at level 30) for an entire encounter?For the most part (Bless being a +1 exception and it doesn't stack with the majority of the rest of buff powers), they don't exist.Trust me. This has been debated long and hard. We are not ignoring the other bonuses. We just see them as not adding up for 20 round encounters. Add them all up and they come nowhere near the +4 per PC for 5 level 30 PCs * 20 rounds * 5 encounters per day or a grand total of +2000 combined over a day of encounters.Yes, there are some "power gamer" optimizations like the one RangerWicket pointed out of "the bard has vicious mockery and psychic lock and an ability that lets him roll twice for every attack" (in this case, a debuff trick). No doubt about it. There are combos like this that can exist if a DM is not smart enough to disallow them. WotC made a mistake. No PC should be able to roll two attack rolls every single attack in an encounter. That's stronger than Expertise right off the bat (two attack rolls is +3.325 to hit on average) at Paragon level (i.e. level 12 in this case) without taking any other bonuses into account. When combined with mega-debuffing, it gets nuts real quick. If people think Expertise is bad with +3 at level 25, how bad is +3.325 at level 12 (and for 2 PCs)? The vast majority of PCs do not have anywhere near this level of bonus ability.</blockquote>

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