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Message: <blockquote data-quote="brehobit" data-source="post: 3299135" data-attributes="member: 12032">OK, I spent some time addressing your points, but I think at the end of the day the details obscure what I'm trying to say.I claim that at lower-levels (say 1-10) a core-built fighter-type is much less powerful and generally useful than a swordsage using all the books.  This is, IMO, a sign that there is significant power creep.  The power-attacking, cleaving barbarian is cool, but very much one trick.  And a barbarian 1/swordsage X has pretty much the same tricks.  A few less hit points, a lot more damage.The DR stacks with Warlock DR.  So DR is 4.By 9th level the DR will be DR 7/cold iron.  That's darn significant, I don't think there is another mechanism for a 9th level character to have that kind of DR. I'm running RoHD.  While I _will_ be giving some folks cold iron weapons, the plot of the module doesn't really have a lot of reason/ability for the baddies to have really any of them.    How on earth do they even figure out he *has* a vulnerability to cold iron?  I suppose someone might cast a big divination, but I'm not sure that info would flow from any reasonable question about the group.The rage certainly helps.  But ability to do *35* points of damage in a round at 5th level, in pretty much every fight (as long as someone hits him) is gross.  Sure it's only one round, but that will take to half any reasonable baddy at that level.  The +2 from flanking which pretty much always exists is also big.He's got 6 maneuvers per fight.  *6*  We've had one fight where he ran out.  When you can do 35 points of damage (on average) in the first round of a fight, fights tend to be rather short.  Going through RHoD, I find that CR 7 monsters average around 65 hit points.  He will, by himself, do 1/2 that damage in a round against something that should be a *serious* challenge to the party. One is a boost, so it's swift, so you can.+2, +4 when raging.  So 7 rounds.  At 5th level, there aren't a lot of fights that last that long.  (We've had one).It's a standard build.  Pure ranger.  Core rangers don't have a source of bonus damage.  I'm arguing that the swordsage is better than the full-BAB ranger at fighting.  By a lot.  You seem to agree.  I think that's a problem.Listed above.  Ranged combat feats mostly.  Pretty much standard issue for a warlock.So your argument is that being overpowered at lower levels is fine, because later they aren't so hot?  A high-level sword sage is utterly scary at high levels.  Level 12?  A swordsage can, once per fight, do 12d6 fire damage to a very carefully selected area that is quite large (ring of fire), all you need is someone to cast expeditious retreat on you and the area is huge.  No caster can dish anything like that out *every* fight.  And that's just 1 of 3 6th level maneuvers the swordsage can use every fight.Sure.  But can you do a better job with a 5th level ranger using core-only rules? If not, I think the power-creep argument stands.Sure, but we tend to play level 1-11 or so.  And from the surveys on these boards, so do most people.  If that game isn't balanced there, it isn't balanced.  On top of that, I think the swordsage has no problem at all doing very very well at higher levels.  Finally, I think the swordsage, using all the "non-core" stuff will CLEARLY wipe the floor with any pure-core PC other than perhaps a druid.  But as we won't get to that (maybe around level 11?) it doesn't really matter.</blockquote>

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