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<blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 8357450" data-attributes="member: 7023840">(For the rest, I would reiterate what I said before- if you like arguing, that's great! But not my bag.)Here, I would say that I probably didn't fully explicate the nature of an argument. An argument is not just reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth (or falsehood). It's effective communication- with the idea implicit that all communication is the attempt to convey a message.Art, music, film- they all have arguments. Guernica (Picasso) has an argument; the advertisements you try to ignore have arguments; Zack Snyder's oeuvre has an argument. Arguments are implicit in all forms of communication. Understanding how to effectively make those arguments requires understanding how to appeal to the audience (Aristotle would say to logos, pathos and ethos, but he was more concerned with the oral argument). Effectively communicating, effectively persuading people requires a knowledge of not just your own argument, but your audience as well. The appeals I would use to convince a scared ten-year old to try a roller coaster for the first time is not the same argument I would use to convince my partner to move across the country. Changing minds is almost never about logic. Hopefully, it can be about facts, but often it requires, at a minimum, some emotional involvement as well, plus a trust in the persuasive person (the ethos). It would be great if our minds worked in a manner similar to a computer (or a non-Pon Farr Spock), but they don't. Anyway, if it works for you, that is great. I trust that it brings you all the joy and happiness. In the meantime, I am going to work on my new project .... Salt &amp; Vinegar Potato Chip Infused Vodka!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Snarf Zagyg, post: 8357450, member: 7023840"] (For the rest, I would reiterate what I said before- if you like arguing, that's great! But not my bag.) Here, I would say that I probably didn't fully explicate the nature of an argument. An argument is not just reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth (or falsehood). It's effective communication- with the idea implicit that all communication is the attempt to convey a message. Art, music, film- they all have arguments. Guernica (Picasso) has an argument; the advertisements you try to ignore have arguments; Zack Snyder's oeuvre has an argument. Arguments are implicit in all forms of communication. Understanding how to effectively make those arguments requires understanding how to appeal to the audience (Aristotle would say to logos, pathos and ethos, but he was more concerned with the oral argument). Effectively communicating, effectively persuading people requires a knowledge of not just your own argument, but your audience as well. The appeals I would use to convince a scared ten-year old to try a roller coaster for the first time is not the same argument I would use to convince my partner to move across the country. Changing minds is almost never about [I]logic[/I]. Hopefully, it can be about [I]facts[/I], but often it requires, at a minimum, some [I]emotional involvement [/I]as well, plus a trust in the persuasive person (the ethos). It would be great if our minds worked in a manner similar to a computer (or a non-Pon Farr Spock), but they don't. Anyway, if it works for you, that is great. I trust that it brings you all the joy and happiness. In the meantime, I am going to work on my new project .... Salt & Vinegar Potato Chip Infused Vodka! [/QUOTE]

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