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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cadence" data-source="post: 6034719" data-attributes="member: 6701124">Well before 40 minutes I noticed that they also have fractional CRs for some things, and figured a commoner was probably at least as good as a toad (1/10 CR).   This doesn't, of course, mean I think anyone should spend 40 minutes trying to figure out how many toads it takes to challenge a 1st level character.  (In PF anyway, I'd be afraid it would lead to a discussion of dropping them on a character in a pit, only to find that the rules forbid one living thing from occupying the same space as an opposing living thing and ending up with some sort of toad geyser).In 4e, I always thought it was interesting what levels different kinds of humans were put at in the MM's. Beware the gladiator (elite 14 which seems to be roughly a 14th level PC in a fight) and knife fighter (elite 7).   The dread assassin is apparently afraid to come out on his own though and is a standard-22 (=elite 11 by equating CRs), just above the Diablist (standard-20).  A dire beast hunter or pirate is only standard-9 (=elite 4.5).   The typical mage is standard-4 (=elite 2) and typical guard is standard-3 (=elite 1.5)  so the 1st level PCs are hardly world beaters.   The poor human rabble is a minion-2 which I think comes out to an elite-1/4.   The lackey is minion-7 which should map to a 7/8ths-level PC if I've done the math right.</blockquote>